Homeless man shot to death by police while “illegally camping” in NM foothills

[Kutnupe14]

You're right, he obviously made the whole thing up. No former soldier's gonna pull my leg by telling me that he had the justification to "smoke" a person and passed on it.

"Made up?" No, but it's pretty clear he took some liberties in drawing parallels.
Here, I won't mince words. If a unknown person is heavily armed, threatening to kill soldiers, not listening to commands, all while in an area that has 'caused enouch concern for soldiers to be there ("there" being Irag or Afghanistan), the I EXPECT that soldier to smoke that trespassers sorry butt. If he doesn't he not olny a danger to himself but his fellow soldiers, and should be sent back home to push papers, are excluded from the service entirely.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

"Made up?" No, but it's pretty clear he took some liberties in drawing parallels.
Here, I won't mince words. If a unknown person is heavily armed, threatening to kill soldiers, not listening to commands, all while in an area that has 'caused enouch concern for soldiers to be there ("there" being Irag or Afghanistan), the I EXPECT that soldier to smoke that trespassers sorry butt. If he doesn't he not olny a danger to himself but his fellow soldiers, and should be sent back home to push papers, are excluded from the service entirely.

"Heavily armed"? Now who's using hyperbole? He only talked about someone armed with a weapon more dangerous than a short knife. And, he never claimed the person in question had threatened to kill anybody. All he said was that he was faced with a person who was armed with more than a small knife, and that he could have justified killing that person, but chose not to and that he felt that he made the right decision under the circumstances.

 

[Kutnupe14]

"Heavily armed"? Now who's using hyperbole? He only talked about someone armed with a weapon more dangerous than a short knife. And, he never claimed the person in question had threatened to kill anybody. All he said was that he was faced with a person who was armed with more than a small knife, and that he could have justified killing that person, but chose not to and that he felt that he made the right decision under the circumstances.

How about you ask him what he meant, it's was clear to me what he was trying to imply. And yes, he never claimed his the person he encountered threatened anybody.... and yet this person who was minorly armed and no issuing any threats was considered "far worse?" Yeah, sell that beachfront property in Arizona to someone else. The image he was trying to convey, doesn't jive. But he can feel free to come here and set the record, and me, staight.

Kut (doesnt take a shine to people who list "capabilities," but don't back them up)

 

[Eric0321]

For my own curiosity on my POV, I'm not a cop and have no interest in being one, I sent that video to a Marine who I served with in Iraq during combat. We both made the same decisions pertaining to go/no-go on engaging. He is currently a police officer. I simply asked him if he had seen the video and what he thought about it.

His response:

"Weak ****ing pussies gotta go for the gun. Communication is the number one tool of an officer. I've dealt with a mentally unstable individual with a butcher knife, and the last thing I thought to do was shoot them."

I don't know, maybe we have really high standards. But we live up to them.

If you don't want to believe anything I say that's fine. I know better than to get into arguments over the internet. I posted because I'm passionate about our country turning into a police state and citizens losing more and more rights every day. I don't think police should be judge, jury and executioner; this is extremely dangerous to the core of our country. They have the right to use escalation of force to protect themselves. I do not believe this man did anything worth dying over. To me it looks like he is turning around to lay down on the ground the second they shoot him. Maybe he was reaching for a weapon, but I don't see it.

 

[Kutnupe14]

For my own curiosity on my POV, I'm not a cop and have no interest in being one, I sent that video to a Marine who I served with in Iraq during combat. We both made the same decisions pertaining to go/no-go on engaging. He is currently a police officer. I simply asked him if he had seen the video and what he thought about it.

His response:

"Weak ****ing pussies gotta go for the gun. Communication is the number one tool of an officer. I've dealt with a mentally unstable individual with a butcher knife, and the last thing I thought to do was shoot them."

I don't know, maybe we have really high standards. But we live up to them.

If you don't want to believe anything I say that's fine. I know better than to get into arguments over the internet. I posted because I'm passionate about our country turning into a police state and citizens losing more and more rights every day. I don't think police should be judge, jury and executioner; this is extremely dangerous to the core of our country. They have the right to use escalation of force to protect themselves. I do not believe this man did anything worth dying over. To me it looks like he is turning around to lay down on the ground the second they shoot him. Maybe he was reaching for a weapon, but I don't see it.

I don't think I can find a pole high enough to fly the BS flag I'd want. The "last" thing huh? Riiiiiiight.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

I don't think I can find a pole high enough to fly the BS flag I'd want. The "last" thing huh? Riiiiiiight.

It's a mind-set thing. If you don't have it, you might not understand.

 

[Kutnupe14]

It's a mind-set thing. If you don't have it, you might not understand.

"Mindset?" Lol, ok. Thank god, I suffer from that particular version of "mindset."

 

[Eric0321]

Unfortunately when there are people who do not suffer from that particular mindset in uniform, it's often innocent civilians who suffer for it. I've served with some of them.

This guy has the mindset.
[video=youtube;yst3a35IRd0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yst3a35IRd0[/video]

 

[nater30/30]

You on here that are proponents of the law and these murder's justification to use deadly force is concerning. Our complacency's what's got us to this point. I suppose, in a few years it's gonna be okay for them to stick an M4 in your face during a seat belt stop? You were breaking the law...your a possible threat cause you have a NRA bumper sticker...sure that's enough justification. Remember Boston? Armored troop carriers and jack booted thugs marching up and down the streets and all over folk's Constitutional rights looking for one little teenager? Packs of brainwashed lemmings chanting "USA, USA!" Like the Nazi annex of Austria dude.
Just go ahead, be the first on their trucks. Kiss enough butt, with them, and maybe they'll even give YOU a badge to shoot civilians. "It's not murder! They're justified under the law!"
Well, good for you! USA, USA!

 

[Denny347]

You on here that are proponents of the law and these murder's justification to use deadly force is concerning. Our complacency's what's got us to this point. I suppose, in a few years it's gonna be okay for them to stick an M4 in your face during a seat belt stop? You were breaking the law...your a possible threat cause you have a NRA bumper sticker...sure that's enough justification. Remember Boston? Armored troop carriers and jack booted thugs marching up and down the streets and all over folk's Constitutional rights looking for one little teenager? Packs of brainwashed lemmings chanting "USA, USA!" Like the Nazi annex of Austria dude.
Just go ahead, be the first on their trucks. Kiss enough butt, with them, and maybe they'll even give YOU a badge to shoot civilians. "It's not murder! They're justified under the law!"
Well, good for you! USA, USA!

Thanks for your lucid, factual, reasoned addition to this discussion...NOT!!!!

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You on here that are proponents of the law and these murder's justification to use deadly force is concerning.

Proponents of the law of self-defense? The law of self-defense applies to the police and non-police alike. The officers were faced with a violent person who committed an Aggravated Assault against them.

If someone committed a forcible felony against someone without a badge, should that invidivual be able to exercise self-defense?

Justification of deadly force is disconcerting? You disagree with the law of self-defense? Why?

I suppose, in a few years it's gonna be okay for them to stick an M4 in your face during a seat belt stop?

How is that self-defense? Is the driver doing anything that would merit such a response that a reasonable person would be in fear of serious bodily injury or death?

Cops are not super human, however they are protected under the same law that we are under, the law of self-defense.

If someone is committing a forcible felony against you, then deadly force is permitted. If you think the cops should have kicked the knives out of his hands like Chuck Norris, then you need to stop watching Texas Ranger re-runs on the treadmill at the gym.

We shall see what happens, but I believe this to be a clear case of self-defense, badge or no badge.

 

[churchmouse]

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I guess now INGO knows how self-defense cases get prosecuted, politics.

 

[nater30/30]

Proponents of the law of self-defense? The law of self-defense applies to the police and non-police alike. The officers were faced with a violent person who committed an Aggravated Assault against them.

If someone committed a forcible felony against someone without a badge, should that invidivual be able to exercise self-defense?

Justification of deadly force is disconcerting? You disagree with the law of self-defense? Why?



How is that self-defense? Is the driver doing anything that would merit such a response that a reasonable person would be in fear of serious bodily injury or death?

Cops are not super human, however they are protected under the same law that we are under, the law of self-defense.

If someone is committing a forcible felony against you, then deadly force is permitted. If you think the cops should have kicked the knives out of his hands like Chuck Norris, then you need to stop watching Texas Ranger re-runs on the treadmill at the gym.

We shall see what happens, but I believe this to be a clear case of self-defense, badge or no badge.

I prefer TJ Hooker over Walker, and the cycle, but never tried together. And memories of less militarized law enforcement, in which I had great respect and admiration. I still have the respect, I comply fully with their instruction when pulled over. But the admiration's been replaced by fear, I'm sorry to say.
I do not envy them. My God, the overwhelming majority do so good to keep their humanity, considering all the filth they wade thru any given work day. It's gotta be one of the hardest professions. The sore travail of relinquishing a community of end endless supply of crime, violence and vice of every imaginable perverted persuasion, it has to be daunting! No way I could hack it. And I understand the impossibility of every single LE officer having a high moral compass. And I have no illusions, this can't be a perfect world and very seldom is there a perfect solution to any given situation. But this was grossly over excessive! Come on, the dude's 300lbs or better on loose rocks with pocket knives. After talking 3hrs with him they had to have an idea he wasn't all there. God, that's human being they greased there, not a rabid coon. They could've just gave him the beanbags, the whole tube if necessary. He'd had a chance. I'm sure a few would've got him down on that footing.
This vid just utterly shocked me. I couldn't believe what I was watching. This was a rare instance where something got to me. So freaking tragic for all involved. Sorry for the rants. I'll shut up.

 

[steveh_131]

Those men weren't spending that time and energy trying to talk him down. That was never their goal. If that was their goal then they would have let him walk down that mountain with his bags like he was trying to do.

They spent 3 hours chatting so they could wait for him to give them an excuse to kill him. Maybe that excuse will hold up in court, but they're not fooling anyone else. Except maybe Kirk Freeman.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Maybe that excuse will hold up in court, but they're not fooling anyone else. Except maybe Kirk Freeman.

Maybe Kirk Freeman just doesn't like to accuse people of conspiracy to commit Murder based on speculation from his political viewpoint?

 

[steveh_131]

Maybe Kirk Freeman just doesn't like to accuse people of conspiracy to commit Murder based on speculation from their political viewpoint?

My speculation was based solely upon the video.

If they wanted a peaceful resolution, they would have taken it when it was offered. They wanted it to escalate; so when it didn't, they escalated it themselves.

 

[HotD]

deleted

 

[traderdan]

Yeah...its not like he is gonna get in his car and flee....Bad shoot...

 

[churchmouse]