Hey FFLs/employees, a question re: AR lowers

[avboiler11]

Stripped AR lowers are transferred as "other" on a 4473, correct?

What about a complete AR lower with carbine receiver extension and stock? Are they transferred as "other", "long gun" or "hand gun"?

Is there any legal prohibition from BATFE against purchasing a complete AR lower receiver with carbine extension and stock, immediately removing the stock, then installing a <16" barrel making the receiver into a legal pistol?

 

[PGRChaplain]

You can make the Lower what ever you want it to be. Like the kit that uses a Glock frame to make a Rifle. Just don't show it to the BATF!

 

[croy]

Pretty sure it's still listed as other.

 

[M67]

A receiver, no matter manuf. or type (including Encores), and no matter if they're stipped, have a pistol tube, or a rifle extension, they should all be marked as an "other" on the 4473.

However, is the lower was shipped with a rifle extension from the factory, it is "considered" a long gun (but still an other on the 4473) so it must always stay a long gun or you need to pay the $200 tax to SBR it.

If it left the factory with a pistol tube, you can go from pistol to rifle to pistol again.


Makes a lot of sense don't it?

 

[ryknoll3]

A receiver, no matter manuf. or type (including Encores), and no matter if they're stipped, have a pistol tube, or a rifle extension, they should all be marked as an "other" on the 4473.

However, is the lower was shipped with a rifle extension from the factory, it is "considered" a long gun (but still an other on the 4473) so it must always stay a long gun or you need to pay the $200 tax to SBR it.

If it left the factory with a pistol tube, you can go from pistol to rifle to pistol again.

If it was never assembled into a rifle, and therefore never met the definition of a rifle, how can it be required to remain a rifle? Do you have any citation for that?

Also, I'm pretty sure ATF has ruled that a rifle extension, by itself, without a stock does not make something a rifle.


Makes a lot of sense don't it?

 

[451_Detonics]

the last paragraph is the scary one...I bet almost everyone that has a AR pistol also owns an AR rifle and therefore intent could be shown if someone was to be a big richard....

 

[ryknoll3]

the last paragraph is the scary one...I bet almost everyone that has a AR pistol also owns an AR rifle and therefore intent could be shown if someone was to be a big richard....

Not really. If you have a legal configuration for the parts, you are OK. You might run into a bit more hot water if you have spare buttstocks lying around, but owning a rifle doesn't make it illegal to own an AR pistol with a standard extension.

If this were the case, you would never be allowed to own extra uppers for your SBR's if you owned other AR rifle (totally legal) and you wouldn't be allowed to own an M16 machine gun if you also owned a semi-auto AR.

The main cause for trouble is if you don't have a legal means to assemble the parts you have lying around. If you own short uppers, but no registered SBR, trouble. If you owned an AR pistol and a buttstock, but didn't own any rifles, trouble.

 

[Frosty]

Okay, but what's to stop a guy from making an sbr and not getting a stamp, assuming said guy doesn't plan on taking it out to show off to the neighborhood? No, I'm not, just curious.

 

[Hookeye]

The law.

 

[maxmayhem]

prison, felonies, the law....

Okay, but what's to stop a guy from making an sbr and not getting a stamp, assuming said guy doesn't plan on taking it out to show off to the neighborhood? No, I'm not, just curious.

 

[Frosty]

The law.

Not really. The law says you can't, it doesn't do anything to stop dishonest or unsavory people from doing as they please, it's just a means to punish people who do bad things.

 

[Trigger Time]

If a lower receiver (even a complete one with a buttstock) has never had an upper attached to it then it is still a receiver ("other" on the 4473) and NOT a rifle.

 

[Hookeye]

Not really. The law says you can't, it doesn't do anything to stop dishonest or unsavory people from doing as they please, it's just a means to punish people who do bad things.

No sheite. It's words on paper, with a system of agents to enforce it.

Hell, they have laws against killing people, yet that happens all the time.

Honest and decent folks obey the laws. Others don't.

Been that way a couple thousand years before the AR was ever invented.

 

[Hookeye]

But today we have the internet, where every other person fancies his/her self as a cop.
Dunno why so many feel the need to worry what others do, social media has most criminals doing themselves in.

 

[Hookeye]

A 16" AR is loud enough.
I have no desire to own an SBR.
Sure as heck wouldn't drop extra to join the supposed cool kids club.
If others do, so be it.

Not into lever guns either. Some folks are.

Spend your money however you want.

 

[Frosty]

But today we have the internet, where every other person fancies his/her self as a cop.
Dunno why so many feel the need to worry what others do, social media has most criminals doing themselves in.

Ah the joys of social media... Glad I don't partake.

A 16" AR is loud enough.
I have no desire to own an SBR.
Sure as heck wouldn't drop extra to join the supposed cool kids club.
If others do, so be it.

Not into lever guns either. Some folks are.

Spend your money however you want.

I have no desire to skirt the law, I have no need for an sbr, but I do enjoy my lever gun. Just asking a question I've wondered about since shopping around for parts.

 

[DRob]

Okay, but what's to stop a guy from making an sbr and not getting a stamp, assuming said guy doesn't plan on taking it out to show off to the neighborhood? No, I'm not, just curious.

Truth is, there is nothing to stop a person from doing just that. Oh, wait. I forgot those micro chips which are installed in every stripped lower transferred as an "Other". The chip will detect the assembly of any illegal configuration and detonate a tiny explosive destroying the lower. It also transmits a signal to the BATF who will then come kick down your door, toss in a couple of flash-bangs, shoot your cat and/or dog, and clap you in irons.

Ok, it's a silly answer but the question deserved it!