Heroin deaths surpass gun homicides

[longbow]

I gave up about the cover up on heroin deaths in Bloomington. The nurse that was feeding me information said they pushed the staff really hard on medical privacy.

Both Bloomington and IU are pushing hard to keep the numbers down. A few do still leak out because they are so obvious. The building just south of the Chocolate Moose was a good example of the hidden drug world in Btown, the city was able to get a developer to buy the owner out for the good of all......

 

[steveh_131]

So, who do you suggest pay for it?

The same guy who is paying for black market heroin can certainly pay for his own methadone at a tiny fraction of the cost of his usual habit.

Read page 208 on. As I recall they were at 85 million euros BEFORE the spike. Call it whatever you want, it is socialist nanny state bandaiding.

Again, I'm not advocating the socialist nanny state portion nor do I feel it is necessary.

You do understand that Portugal does not have a drug free market, right? It is still illegal and criminal to sell drugs. The only thing they changed was you can't go to prison for simple possession. They most certainly are not selling heroin or opiates next to the Advil. Stop pretending that decriminalizing simple possession is somehow the same as making drugs legal and free-market.

I fully understand that. That is why I am suggesting a free market in place of the government subsidies. That is what I am suggesting to improve upon even Portugal's results.

Then why are the Portuguese doing it?

Because it was already a part of their existing health care system. It's stupid, I agree. I have no interest in funding methadone for junkies.

For the umpteenth time, their mortality rates decreased because they actively enabled safer drug use by paying for drugs and syringes with tax dollars. Just because they decriminalized simple possession at the same time doesn't mean that is why mortality rates plummeted. In fact I don't see any evidence it had anything to do with it. Plus, once again Portugal didn't do anything like what you propose with selling it on the shelves at the supermarket. Also they have a very different society and set of societal problems and norms and we do.

And for the umpteenth time, the key here is that with decriminalization, overall drug abuse did not increase. This assumption is the cornerstone of every prohibitionist argument, and that assumption is FALSE. Look through every thread on the subject, including this one.

"I don't want to pay for more drug users!"

"I don't want to see more people getting hooked on drugs!"

All false. And if these assumptions are false, then what we are left with is:

1) Fewer people expensively housed in prisons
2) Less money spent on this insane drug war
3) Fewer risks imposed upon our police force
4) Fewer risks to our civil liberties

If drug use doesn't increase with decriminalization, then I see nothing but positives associated with it.

Now if we could have an actual free market in drugs, I think we would start to see fewer overdoses, less violent crime, less organized crime, and lots of other goodies. This is not speculation. We've done it before right here in the USA and all of those things happened.

 

[phylodog]

1) Fewer people expensively housed in prisons
2) Less money spent on this insane drug war
3) Fewer risks imposed upon our police force
4) Fewer risks to our civil liberties

If this country wasn't populated near 50% with bat **** crazy liberals those would be all we were left with. Unfortunately there will always be a 5) Provide free treatment to those poor, poor victims of the disease known as addiction. That last one is why we will never satisfy enough people to see all drugs decriminalized or legalized in this country whether it would result in more or less users.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

If you are EMS/fire its your job to save lives. Doesn't matter if you agree with the lifestyle choices of your patients. If you can't come to grips with that, you should probably find another line of work.

Let me clarify the reason we don't carry narcan. Our brass doesn't allow us to carry narcan. A lot of us don't want to because it's become an epidemic around here. Never once did I say that I do not care for my patients. You just assumed that I don't. Regardless you have no room to tell me that I need to find another line of work because I do not agree with something I feel so strongly about. This would be like me telling you to find another line of work because you are underpayed. Being an IMPD officer you have to know what I've seen, or maybe not because you don't work in the district where it's become a habitual problem. We have at least two a week and it's usually the same people or persons. It's a shame that kids this young are deciding to risk their own lives to get high. We went on one last shift and the mother said that she was out of narcan and she should make a trip to town to get more. It's a sad epedimic and to say the least I'm tired of seeing it. Maybe next week the same kid kicks in my door to get some fast cash to buy more drugs. Or maybe they will harm a family member with a weapon that stole from the last house they robbed.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

Why even go on overdose calls if you're not going to try to help?

Post #84 is for you as well.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Let me clarify the reason we don't carry narcan. Our brass doesn't allow us to carry narcan. A lot of us don't want to because it's become an epidemic around here. Never once did I say that I do not care for my patients. You just assumed that I don't, maybe it's because your incompetent or plain ignorant. Regardless you have no room to tell me that I need to find another line of work because I do not agree with something I feel so strongly about. This would be like me telling you to find another line of work because you are underplayed and your feelings are hurt. I don't know you and you definitely don't know me and I'd be more than happy to keep it that way. Unless you've encountered this first hand I suggest you keep your opinions to yourself.

Yep, blame it on "the brass." You said "we don't carry Narcan because we felt we were enablers.." Its not your job to decide what lifestyle choices deserve your expertise. So if you can't do your job professionally for every patient, perhaps you should think of a career change. And in fact, I do have first hand experience with it and have in fact administered it.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

Yep, blame it on "the brass." You said "we don't carry Narcan because we felt we were enablers.." Its not your job to decide what lifestyle choices deserve your expertise. So if you can't do your job professionally for every patient, perhaps you should think of a career change. And in fact, I do have first hand experience with it and have in fact administered it.

Im sorry you've encountered this, it's a tragedy in itself. I did change my last post due to the fact that I'm sure you have some intel on this. I am not going to deny any service and or treatment to any patient due to my opinions on this matter. Let's get that straight.

 

[Woobie]

Let me clarify the reason we don't carry narcan. Our brass doesn't allow us to carry narcan. A lot of us don't want to because it's become an epidemic around here. Never once did I say that I do not care for my patients. You just assumed that I don't. Regardless you have no room to tell me that I need to find another line of work because I do not agree with something I feel so strongly about. This would be like me telling you to find another line of work because you are underpayed. Being an IMPD officer you have to know what I've seen, or maybe not because you don't work in the district where it's become a habitual problem. We have at least two a week and it's usually the same people or persons. It's a shame that kids this young are deciding to risk their own lives to get high. We went on one last shift and the mother said that she was out of narcan and she should make a trip to town to get more. It's a sad epedimic and to say the least I'm tired of seeing it. Maybe next week the same kid kicks in my door to get some fast cash to buy more drugs. Or maybe they will harm a family member with a weapon that stole from the last house they robbed.

I'm with Frank, man. A medic with the attitude of "screw 'em" or "they made their bed, they can lie in it" is not exactly who I want coming to save my life. You entered a life-saving trade. Save lives.

I dont want a firefighter refusing to put out my house fire because I decided to deep fry a turkey indoors (which would be beyond stupid).

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

I'm with Frank, man. A medic with the attitude of "screw 'em" or "they made their bed, they can lie in it" is not exactly who I want coming to save my life. You entered a life-saving trade. Save lives.

I dont want a firefighter refusing to put out my house fire because I decided to deep fry a turkey indoors (which would be beyond stupid).

Again, I never said I wouldn't treat them. And never would I not put out a house fire because a person had a lack of judgment on their actions. I've been on plenty of fires where I thought what the heck were you thinking..? It happens the passing of judgment happens, whether it's a fireman, a cop or a judge. And I know frank has encountered it with his line of work.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

I'm with Frank, man. A medic with the attitude of "screw 'em" or "they made their bed, they can lie in it" is not exactly who I want coming to save my life. You entered a life-saving trade. Save lives.

I dont want a firefighter refusing to put out my house fire because I decided to deep fry a turkey indoors (which would be beyond stupid).

Woobie, I've seen a turkey fryer indoors... it happens more than you think.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

Yep, blame it on "the brass." You said "we don't carry Narcan because we felt we were enablers.." Its not your job to decide what lifestyle choices deserve your expertise. So if you can't do your job professionally for every patient, perhaps you should think of a career change. And in fact, I do have first hand experience with it and have in fact administered it.

Frank do you agree with everything you do? Do you actually treat every person with the same amount of respect as you were professionally sworn too? What I mean is when your called to child molester that raped a young kid do you ever pass judgment or think man this person needs to be thrown in jail and let bubba have his way with him? Or heaven forbid this happens but it does. But a person takes another officers life, do you ever think to yourself this mother lover needs a bullet to his dome? I will answer that question, yes I'm sure you have had some non professional judgments zip through your head. It happens, we've seen some bad things that most will never see. We've been through bad things in our career that most will never go through. I have my opinions and you have yours and for you to put me on a cliff and chastise me is just wrong.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Frank do you agree with everything you do? Do you actually treat every person with the same amount of respect as you were professionally sworn too? What I mean is when your called to child molester that raped a young kid do you ever pass judgment or think man this person needs to be thrown in jail and let bubba have his way with him? Or heaven forbid this happens but it does. But a person takes another officers life, do you ever think to yourself this mother lover needs a bullet to his dome? I will answer that question, yes I'm sure you have had some non professional judgments zip through your head. It happens, we've seen some bad things that most will never see. We've been through bad things in our career that most will never go through. I have my opinions and you have yours and for you to put me on a cliff and chastise me is just wrong.

Whatever I may feel about someone and what they have (allegedly) done has no effect on how I do my job. I have never witheld "service" or overstepped my authority because of someone's lifestyle, gender, race, religion, etc. If I feel the need to pass judgement, which I definitely have, I do it in conversation with coworkers or my wife.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

Whatever I may feel about someone and what they have (allegedly) done has no effect on how I do my job. I have never witheld "service" or overstepped my authority because of someone's lifestyle, gender, race, religion, etc. If I feel the need to pass judgement, which I definitely have, I do it in conversation with coworkers or my wife.

Exactly!! Thank you for allowing me that much.

 

[2A_Tom]

Again, I never said I wouldn't treat them. And never would I not put out a house fire because a person had a lack of judgment on their actions. I've been on plenty of fires where I thought what the heck were you thinking..? It happens the passing of judgment happens, whether it's a fireman, a cop or a judge. And I know frank has encountered it with his line of work.

Why, why, yes you did. You said you don't carry Narcan, "because You don't want to be an enabler". Now you say you will treat them. How do you do this, since you don't even carry the life saving drug?

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

Why, why, yes you did. You said you don't carry Narcan, "because You don't want to be an enabler". Now you say you will treat them. How do you do this, since you don't even carry the life saving drug?

You can treat them without narcan, since your being an *******. Narcan was patented in 1961 and approved by the FDA in 1971. To treat an overdose requires more than just narcan, and it's not a lifesaving drug. You are correct in saying in your quotes but it's not my decision in what we we carry. What I should have said and I will correct my first statement is we do not carry it because we aren't allowed to carry and furthermore we don't feel like we should carry it because... etc.etc.
In my next opinion I will be sure to correctly state my intentions on topics. Yes, why yes you are correct for my misguidance in my first statement, but don't get excited as nothing else you have stated is correct.

 

[2A_Tom]

Your words That have been QFT belie you.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

Contradicting, maybe. Next time my clarifications will be more precise for the slower learners in the classroom.

 

[2A_Tom]

Wow! For someone as smart as you, you sure do go to name calling easily.

Very mature.

If we remain civil we can discuss anything, when we stoop to denigration and personal attacks we lose.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

Wow! For someone as smart as you, you sure do go to name calling easily.

Very mature.

If we remain civil we can discuss anything, when we stoop to denigration and personal attacks we lose.

I'm sorry if my last post was personal. I do not enjoy being belittled for my opinions. You are right we can talk about anything if it's kept civil on both ends. But when one throws in detraction to another one to react in the same manner.

 

[2A_Tom]

Actually the starred out 7 letter word was quite offensive.

INGO is a community of generally caring folk. Several who are Public Service Professionals were taken aback by your seeming disdain for a certain class of people.

Since you say you were not clear in your first statement I relent.