HB1231 passes in house- (Centerfire rifles for deer hunting)

[avboiler11]

So is the law now the same as it was + just these 5?

Yes, 2015 regs plus those five "chamberings" (which include any chambering that starts with those sets of numbers, as the regulation was VERY loosely worded) limited to 10 rounds in the field, plus 10mm handguns.

Unless the bill is amended during the summer Technical Correction day, in which case it may end up being the five specific chamberings that people say were intended.

 

[oldpink]

Don't have time to read all the comments.... why was the .270WIN left out of the running? Mine worked for me quite well in ND and is one of the most popular deer cartridges. Now that I moved to IN, gosh darn it: "Honey I have to buy a new deer rifle..."

The only way you can legally use .270 is if you go full Jack O'Conner and load it with 130 grain bullets.

 

[openwell]

The only way you can legally use .270 is if you go full Jack O'Conner and load it with 130 grain bullets.

Everyone should read Jack O'connor's The Hunting Rifle. They will learn a bunch. BTW I can neck down a 30-06 cartridge case with my .270 Win dies, trim the case and load 130 gr or 150 gr bullets. I then have a cartridge case with a head stamp of 30-06 Sprg that chambers in my rifle with a .270 lands and .277 grooves. No deer will be able to tell what it was hit with. LOL BTW don't try this at home, just read the book.

For everyone: 30-06 was developed in 1906 and the .270 in 1925. Parent case of the .270 is the 30-06, just necked down to .277 and case lengthened to .254". Springfield & Winchester have been left off intentionally. LOL

 

[cschwanz]

Everyone should read Jack O'connor's The Hunting Rifle. They will learn a bunch. BTW I can neck down a 30-06 cartridge case with my .270 Win dies, trim the case and load 130 gr or 150 gr bullets. I then have a cartridge case with a head stamp of 30-06 Sprg that chambers in my rifle with a .270 lands and .277 grooves. No deer will be able to tell what it was hit with. LOL BTW don't try this at home, just read the book.

For everyone: 30-06 was developed in 1906 and the .270 in 1925. Parent case of the .270 is the 30-06, just necked down to .277 and case lengthened to .254". Springfield & Winchester have been left off intentionally. LOL

Deer won't know the dif but a knowledgeable CO will

 

[Nodonutz]

The only way you can legally use .270 is if you go full Jack O'Conner and load it with 130 grain bullets.

Yup.... that wouldn't be bad company to be in.... (Always on the run ♫♫)
I prefer 130gr over 150gr and the deer seem to oblige by pretty much dropping where they were standing. Only had one take off, but that was my fault with poor shot placement. He eventually dropped at the far end of the field. Otherwise all were DRT.

 

[openwell]

Deer won't know the dif but a knowledgeable CO will

My rifle just chambered a 30-06 cartridge. Meets every element of HR1231, and no different than my 45-70 with trimmed case @ 1.8" under. I modified my cartridge case to meet the elements of the law. I've been reloading since 1986 and I started with the .270 Win. so, again professional on a closed road course! don't try this @ home.

 

[cschwanz]

I get what you're saying, I do a bunch of reloading myself. But if you neck down a .30-06 case to a .270, you no longer have a .30-06. You now have a .270. The law doesn't specify "the case head must be marked as such". The round is the round and if you alter it you don't have that round anymore.

If you want to say your idea of .30-06 down to .270 is legal, then that means you can't neck up a .270 right? Because the case head says .270 and not 30-06, it must not be a .30-06.

 

[midget]

This is the legal definition of .30-06... http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/30-06 Springfield.pdf
Necking down the cartridge invalidates that. Have fun getting your equipment confiscated...

 

[M4Madness]

Someone posted the following reply from the DNR on another website this morning:

Thank you for your question(s) about HEA 1231. Complete language can be found athttp://iga.in.gov/legislative/2016/bills/house/1231. The bill was passed by the State Legislature and has been signed by the Governor. DNR understands there are many questions about the new law, and we’re attempting to get clarification on some of those outstanding questions. In the meantime, we ask everyone to be patient. Details will be printed in this year's DNR Hunting/Trapping Regulations guide that comes out in July, or posted on the DNR website if available sooner.

The technical corrections day for the Legislature is scheduled sometime in May, so we'll know the outcome then.

 

[midget]

Someone posted the following on another website this morning:

WHAT?! PATIENTS!? The ingo masses demand clarification now!

 

[openwell]

I get what you're saying, I do a bunch of reloading myself. But if you neck down a .30-06 case to a .270, you no longer have a .30-06. You now have a .270. The law doesn't specify "the case head must be marked as such". The round is the round and if you alter it you don't have that round anymore.

If you want to say your idea of .30-06 down to .270 is legal, then that means you can't neck up a .270 right? Because the case head says .270 and not 30-06, it must not be a .30-06.

I have plenty of .30-06 Sprg. cases so I don't need to resize .270 Win. Plus, It requires the added step of trimming the down from 2.54" But I would if I need to and would not have any trouble explaining how and why I reloaded it.
As I noted earlier: This meets the letter of the law just like when I trim my 45-70 cartridge cases to 1.8" I no longer have a 45-70 cartridge, but a brand new one. I had John Lee (Lee Precision) build me a special crimp die and I specified it as my 45X1.8" cartridge. And I don't worry about COs because they carry case length gauges and the regs. only use the tenths place so my cases may be trimmed a little long or short (refer to your grade school math on rounding) BTW handgun cases are by reg. to the hundredths place 1.16 min. I think. You have to understand definitions in law are usually required to be in English and in the dictionary. Cartridge case nomenclature has it's own dictionary, so be advised. Guns have chambers and rifle & handgun cartridges are usually brass(may vary) vessels that contain gun powder(modern or black powder). Now I know this is bunch to understand and I have tried to post some reference works that detail the "details". In this forum it's difficult to get all the info you need. Try reading the law one step at a time and you have meet each "element" of the law. I feel comfortable resizing a 30-06 case to .277; just as I am to resize my .308 cases to 7mm-08 and .243. THESE cartridges started life as required by law. Nobody said my rifling or bullets had to be a certain dia. And again, there are NO cartridges listed in the law because: The American system of cartridge nomenclature, the British system of cartridge nomenclature & the European system of cartridge nomenclature have none. You have to use the information found plus newer cartridges of the world. See my prior posts about the possible cartridges from Cartridges of the World, 8th ed. 1997 by Frank C. Barnes. Try and follow along, it's not that hard if you read carefully. Good hunting and buy some rifles and factory ammo to be safe.

 

[gunselman]

Above are some screenshots from a Facebook posting on the new regulation. It seems to me that DNR is going to clarify all of this in due time.

 

[cschwanz]

It will be clarified soon and then all the talk of sizing down and using "illegal cartridges" will be over.

Yes, they DID say your rifling had to be a certain size when they said "30-06 is legal". If you don't have a. 308 caliber bullet in it, its not a .30-06.

 

[midget]

I have plenty of .30-06 Sprg. cases so I don't need to resize .270 Win. Plus, It requires the added step of trimming the down from 2.54" But I would if I need to and would not have any trouble explaining how and why I reloaded it.
As I noted earlier: This meets the letter of the law just like when I trim my 45-70 cartridge cases to 1.8" I no longer have a 45-70 cartridge, but a brand new one. I had John Lee (Lee Precision) build me a special crimp die and I specified it as my 45X1.8" cartridge. And I don't worry about COs because they carry case length gauges and the regs. only use the tenths place so my cases may be trimmed a little long or short (refer to your grade school math on rounding) BTW handgun cases are by reg. to the hundredths place 1.16 min. I think. You have to understand definitions in law are usually required to be in English and in the dictionary. Cartridge case nomenclature has it's own dictionary, so be advised. Guns have chambers and rifle & handgun cartridges are usually brass(may vary) vessels that contain gun powder(modern or black powder). Now I know this is bunch to understand and I have tried to post some reference works that detail the "details". In this forum it's difficult to get all the info you need. Try reading the law one step at a time and you have meet each "element" of the law. I feel comfortable resizing a 30-06 case to .277; just as I am to resize my .308 cases to 7mm-08 and .243. THESE cartridges started life as required by law. Nobody said my rifling or bullets had to be a certain dia. And again, there are NO cartridges listed in the law because: The American system of cartridge nomenclature, the British system of cartridge nomenclature & the European system of cartridge nomenclature have none. You have to use the information found plus newer cartridges of the world. See my prior posts about the possible cartridges from Cartridges of the World, 8th ed. 1997 by Frank C. Barnes. Try and follow along, it's not that hard if you read carefully. Good hunting and buy some rifles and factory ammo to be safe.

Redacted... Not worth the time and effort....

 

[openwell]

This is the legal definition of .30-06... http://www.saami.org/pubresources/cc_drawings/Rifle/30-06 Springfield.pdf
Necking down the cartridge invalidates that. Have fun getting your equipment confiscated...

Good work. You really need to slow down and read the black & white carefully. It's not semantics or voodoo or rocket science. As to being afraid of getting my equipment confiscated, I have only one thing to say- baloney! That may sound scary to the peasants, but we no longer live in feudal England and only use their laws if we don't have one of our own. (free legal advice jab) If you have never been there, you can't say what will happen. Our judicial system is wonderful and contains may steps to prevent such non-sense, especially when the government wants to confiscate your property. DNR was not prepared for this law and has very little wiggle room. Prediction: Legislators got what they wanted and will not change a thing since elections are in Nov., law is already in effect, Technical corrections are not needed. Intent of the law was to establish a rifle season experiment, require DNR to report results in 2020 and spur the Hoosier economy. Let's all look forward to some great fun.

 

[midget]

Good work. You really need to slow down and read the black & white carefully. It's not semantics or voodoo or rocket science. As to being afraid of getting my equipment confiscated, I have only one thing to say- baloney! That may sound scary to the peasants, but we no longer live in feudal England and only use their laws if we don't have one of our own. (free legal advice jab) If you have never been there, you can't say what will happen. Our judicial system is wonderful and contains may steps to prevent such non-sense, especially when the government wants to confiscate your property. DNR was not prepared for this law and has very little wiggle room. Prediction: Legislators got what they wanted and will not change a thing since elections are in Nov., law is already in effect, Technical corrections are not needed. Intent of the law was to establish a rifle season experiment, require DNR to report results in 2020 and spur the Hoosier economy. Let's all look forward to some great fun.

Where can I get my internet law degree?

 

[cschwanz]

Let me google that for you

Curiosity got the best of me and I couldn't resist, lol

 

[openwell]

Redacted... Not worth the time and effort....

You're opinion is noted and again I say, please read carefully and it will come to you. Again professional on a closed course, don't try this at home.

 

[openwell]

Where can I get my internet law degree?

looks to me like you are trying to get one on google, but I would not hire you to represent me! Again, if you don't understand please get somebody to help you read it.

 

[Expatriated]

I don't know why you guys want to carry some heavy boomstick into the woods. This year, it's hands-free for me: Glock 27. Walk to the stand, put the Big Dot on the vitals, and load up the truck. I figure I'm good out to about 120 yards with it. No reason to carry something heavy on a sling and get it all scratched up. Now, I finally have a hand free to carry my thermos of hot coffee and Bushmills.

Thanks, legislature!