HB 1369 constitutional carry bill introduced for Indiana

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  • Bill of Rights

    Cogito, ergo porto.
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    This leaves me with a question: If the rights enumerated in the Constitution are natural rights, then how can the argument be made that the 2A effectively does not apply to the states?
    Given the facts of incorporation of the Amendments, you are correct. The intent at the time of the ratification of the Bill of Rights was that they would apply to the central government, and that each of the states would act as they saw fit, responding to the wishes of their constituents.

    However, given the specific language of the 1A, the 9A, and the 10A:

    1A) Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. (emphasis mine)

    9A) The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

    10A) The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

    it can be argued (correctly, in my view) that:

    1. the 1A was specifically applicable to the federal government, the Congress in particular;
    2. the rights of the People are not fully delineated; and
    3. the power to infringe upon the right of the people to keep and bear arms was expressly not delegated to the federal government, was implicitly prohibited to the states, and thus, was retained by the people.
    What does that mean? It means that if you, a business owner, choose to disallow firearms in your business, you may do so, at the risk of losing your customer base. However, any local ordinance or state-level law disallowing firearms would be unConstitutional.

    2A) A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

    The Constitution is a limitation upon the power of government, not upon the people.


    Not that I expect any organ of government to adopt this view. I wonder what Scalia's opinion in the Heller case would have looked like if he'd had six solid Conservative Justices on the Court when he wrote it. I am convinced, as was Justice Stevens, in his autobiography, that much of what Scalia said was said for the purpose of gaining Justice Kennedy's agreement to make it a majority opinion, rather than a dissent.

    Blessings,
    Bill
     

    KLB

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    Isn't it curious that only the 1st Amendment calls out the Congress?

    It appears though that the original intent was to only restrict the Federal government. The Civil War and the 14th Amendment changed that.
     

    chipbennett

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    With constitutional carry you would still have the option of getting the lifetime permit to cover the reciprocity issue, but no sir, we do not need the permit system in Indiana. And because states have the right to set their own laws, there`s no expectation of a federal reciprocity bill.
    A. The Constitution gives no authority to any level of government to infringe upon the right to keep and bear arms
    B. The second amendment was formally incorporated to the states via McDonald
    C. If states are forced to recognize other states' marriage licenses via Obergfell, then that constraint must also apply to carry licenses.
     

    sliptap

    Sharpshooter
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    I am super disappointed to read through that this bill is dead. Did anyone compile a list of the Republican senators that caused this to fail? Want to keep this in mind when voting next time around.
     

    sliptap

    Sharpshooter
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    There are others. But since was done in a caucus (probably not the correct term) setting, there is no accountability.
    Good feedback, thank you!

    Is there any way for us to ever know how each individual Senator responded? I hate that we have no idea on whether individual senators supported this bill or not.
     

    Hawkeye

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    Because it was done in "caucus" there were no notes.
    Yeah, the problem is there is no record of the votes in the "secret' caucus. Bray and Brown are the figureheads, but some of our senators who "sponsored' hte legislation lied to us. Problem is we don't know who...
     

    larcat

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    Right. That all follows what I heard on Relfords show.

    I'm a little lost here though as to why. When nominally left leaning politicians do **** like block single payer and pass the ACA instead, I know why -- they want to give payola to special interests (large insurers in that case.)

    What's the advantage for local GOP politicians to shank sensible 2A protections here? There's some sort of wrinkle that I'm not understanding.

    More importantly, given that I like in Garydise, what can I do to try and help for the next go round, other than sending some treasure to Relford's org?
     

    KellyinAvon

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    So who are we getting behind to unseat Bray and Brown?
    I think we absolutely have to do that. Gun owners are paying attention and having an "R" after your name doesn't get you a pass.

    Brown is up for re-election in 22, Bray in 24. Brown's district is in Ft Wayne. Bray's is in Morgan/Putnam Counties, more convenient for me but 2022 is coming soon.

    What will we do? What does it look like? Who will be involved? I have no idea. But having no idea has never stopped me before! :lmfao:
     
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