Has anyone experienced or heard of older polymer pistols breaking?

[Bennettjh]

My polymer pistols will probably outlast me.

 

[STEEL CORE]

June 18th 2013, I stopped at GLOCK INC in Smyrna Ga, on the way back to Indy following a Disney family Vacation. I wanted Glock Night Sights (GNS) put on my 1995 dated 2.5 Gen Glock-27 .40 cal EDC. The armorer showed me a stress fracture on the left side of the frame above the pin. Not all the way through the frame yet, it could cause more dammage and issues later. I just retired it from range abuse but still carry it.

 

[Dargo]

I don't see it as unreasonable to consider them to degrade, most plastics do, but I'm sure it will take many years for it to cause any considerable weakening.

I wonder how much UV contact makes a difference in the particular polymers?

I believe you expressed my thoughts on the matter. I just have to think polymers will degrade over time, but I also think their almost total lack of exposure to UV makes such potential degradation out to an unknown delta. Also, 'phylodog' probably hit it on the head; if there was a problem there surely would be some posting their experiences with polymers failing here. I suppose my concern mostly arises from me being reasonably familiar with metallurgy having been a certified welder on most all types of welders for over 30 years yet having zero knowledge of polymers. I once bought a "plastic welder", and it was a total joke. There again, that was decades ago.

I suppose, based on the large knowledge base that has responded, there must not be any issues at this time from even the earliest produced polymers. Still, my (as I warned; possibly defective) mind thinks about the continual progress in the development of polymers as well as kevlar body armor, newer polymer firearms likely have better quality polymers than older polymers and, very possibly, higher end polymer firearms have better polymers than the very bottom of the price spectrum polymer firearms. Thanks again to all who have given replies. Each entry has caused me to think, and that is the absolute best I can ask to receive.

 

[phylodog]

June 18th 2013, I stopped at GLOCK INC in Smyrna Ga, on the way back to Indy following a Disney family Vacation. I wanted Glock Night Sights (GNS) put on my 1995 dated 2.5 Gen Glock-27 .40 cal EDC. The armorer showed me a stress fracture on the left side of the frame above the pin. Not all the way through the frame yet, it could cause more dammage and issues later. I just retired it from range abuse but still carry it.

They didn't offer to replace the frame?

 

[88E30M50]

I think polymers will degrade over time, but I think that time frame is much longer than we need to be concerned about. When that degradation takes place, it will probably be noticed in a tendency to develop stress cracks outside of what we see in normal use. For instance, let's say someone finds a 21st century stash 500 years from now and in that stash is a perfectly preserved Glock 20 with 1000 rounds of preserved ammunition. If the polymers have degraded over time, the gun might see a stress crack in the frame after 500 rounds had been fired as opposed to the tens of thousands of rounds it may take today.

In other words, my Glocks will probably work just as well for my great grandkids someday as they do for me today. Now, the question of what gun do I want my great grandkids associating to their great grandpappy is can be a very different thing to consider. I think I'm much happier with the thought that my descendants will someday base their opinion of me by taking my tricked out Colt Delta Elite with mammoth ivory grips on a range trip as opposed to taking my simple, yet reliable Glock 20 on a range trip. In another hundred years, the Glock will be in interesting relic where as the 1911 will be seen as art.

 

[shibumiseeker]

In other words, my Glocks will probably work just as well for my great grandkids someday as they do for me today. Now, the question of what gun do I want my great grandkids associating to their great grandpappy is can be a very different thing to consider. I think I'm much happier with the thought that my descendants will someday base their opinion of me by taking my tricked out Colt Delta Elite with mammoth ivory grips on a range trip as opposed to taking my simple, yet reliable Glock 20 on a range trip. In another hundred years, the Glock will be in interesting relic where as the 1911 will be seen as art.

I understand what you are saying, but the flip side to that is that the things I treasure most from my grandparents and great-grandparents are the work-aday things they had.

I have a set of cheap aluminum pots my great grandmother used. I use them daily. I have a set of tools my great grandfather used on the farm that were the generic tools of their day. I have a pocketknife my grandfather carried all the time I was growing up. It was nothing special other than that.

I have a titanium scale Buck knife I bought when I was 20 and have carried daily since. I have carried a Glock29 EDC since they first came out. I really don't want my descendants to think I was something I am not, and to that end, the things around me I used most are the things I would rather them treasure, just as I treasured the no-name brand .22lr my grandfather taught me to shoot with that I inherited when he died.

 

[seedubs1]

(Engineer by trade speaking here)

1). It all has to do with design. Most good manufacturers design based on a set duty cycle, and shoot for 6 sigma (3.4 ppm rate) failure rate at the given duty cycle. Basically, I can design a polymer OR a metal gun to work for any given duty cycle. It all has to do with how the gun was designed.

2). Yes, polymers have gotten progressively better. Remember, steel has been around forever and a day. We're still developing and learning about polymers. They have more than proved themselves in firearms applications, but polymers are still advancing.

3). I wouldn't worry too much about the lifespan of a quality polymer gun these days. They've more than proved themselves reliable at this point.

 

[traderdan]

I believe that as time goes by, firearms manufacturers who do not primarily serve to arm governments shall be legislated out of business..You should think of every firearm you own as being something to be passed down to many generations following...I believe a handgun made of high quality steel parts, if properly maintained, will far outlast a polymer framed weapon. I guess time will tell..

 

[Tired of Lies]

I thought the same thing. Even Baretta fixed the Tomcat 32 I had twice for free before I just gave up on it. Spring set up sucked. Jammed several times...even right out of the box on one! And, had two fly while trying to reassemble the hand gun and it took them forever to send another.

I have heard of polymers cracking under use in Alaska in weather like we had last week. Hard to find much that will work well at minus 30 or 40 for prelonged periods. I got to see a video once of the Alaska test house for vinyl siding...they are still trying to cut into the T-111 market up there....snow balls on older vinyl siding in deep winter can be devastating.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Dargo, welcome to INGO.

Is your question one of practicality or one of theory?

In theory, in the end everything will be dust. Does it matter? No, as future INGOers will simply print guns off the Internet.

Your Glock will last a long time. When the giant rats are battling the giant cockroaches for control of the Earth after the fall of man, both sides will use Glocks and AK-47s.

If you are worried about guns breaking, and you should be, then find a gun you like and buy multiple copies.

I have a Glock that I purchased in high school. It was made July 1986. It still goes to the range even through the weapon was assembled by dinosaurs decades and decades ago.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Your Glock will be just fine. Buy extras, buy magazines, buy ammo, go to school.

Glock 21 Buried 2 years then 500rd test fire - YouTube

 

[SERparacord]

Your Glock will be just fine. Buy extras, buy magazines, buy ammo, go to school.

Glock 21 Buried 2 years then 500rd test fire - YouTube

Buried......best use for a glock?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Buried......best use for a glock

Well, none of my buried Glocks have exploded.

 

[SERparacord]

Well, none of my buried Glocks have exploded.

So they are safe while buried.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So they are safe while buried

OR . . . they are SM-70s to moles.

 

[Dargo]

Your Glock will be just fine. Buy extras, buy magazines, buy ammo, go to school.

Glock 21 Buried 2 years then 500rd test fire - YouTube

Thanks. Without a doubt, I have more than plenty of duplicates as well as probably a hundred mags as well as more ammo than I'm likely to use in my life. I tend to keep my vehicles until it is no longer practical; until parts are hard to find and there is a legitimate concern of something old breaking. I'm now old enough that I no longer enjoy working on them. I suppose I'm applying the same philosophy to polymer firearms. I know they have an end to their useful life. I just don't know how long that is. Still, IMHO, the polymer frame firearms seem to have a distinctive value for being my 'every day' firearms. That's all. I'm just so wondering how long, time wise, they are still duty ready.

 

[LarryC]

HKs VP70 pistols are still working fine, 44 years into their service life.

Harsh envirmonments? The Sirius Patrol of Greenland seems happy with their Glock 20s while partroling above the arctic circle.

Mosin nagants "lasting for centuries"? What planet are you living on? 99% of the Nagants in existance were made in the 1940s. They are only about 70 years old - and they have been submerged in heavy grease for 50 or 60 of those years. The OLDEST Mosins are 123 years old, and very very difficult to find in ANY condition.

A wood and steel firearm will ding/dent/scratch/rust/flake apart just as fast as polymer will degrade. Either kind will last forever if properly cared for and stored in a climate controled environment.

This is a non issue, and not to put too fine a point on it, but if you think polymer pistols wont last 100 years, you are ignorant.

Well I do own and have shot my 1891 MOSIN, that is well over a century old. What I have stated is my opinion based on many tests of plastics used in the industry I worked for. Proper storage of a metal and wood firearm consists of oiling the metal parts and putting the firearm in a dry location. When this is properly done (as in the storage of many WW1 and WW2 Military firearms stored by the various governments throughout the world there is virtually no degradation.

Polymers are truly untested over long periods of time, but the base material (NYLON 6) is one of the oldest plastics made. It DOES HAVE A HISTORY OF DEGRADATION OVER TIME. I never made any claim that the polymers would fail in normal or heavy use during the first 25 to 50 years. In fact I stated just the opposite. Nor did I claim that they would fail in harsh environments. MY ONLY STATEMENT BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE is that I believe they will degrade over time - the length of time is still not known, while traditional metal and wood materials will last indefinitely with very minor attention.

Will a Glock or other polymer based reciever hold up to normal or heavy use for a users lifetime, possibly, actually it is quite probable. However I want the firearms I purchase to last WAY beyond my lifetime, hopefully for several generations. I stand by my statements - the proof of them will not be seen for many years, probably long after I have passed away.

Obviously you own and want to defend your choice of firearm, that is normal. However, I am not ignorant but I would sure like to question your "proof" I have ran many tests on plastics, for your information (I am sure you will disregard this as it disagrees with your viewpoint) the only way you can predict what will happen to a material is to subject the material to "Accelerated testing". IE: If you are testing to determine how long a material will resist UV degradation, you subject it to an extremely high level of UV for a month or two and based on the degradation of the material, give an estimate of how long it will last. You do the same thing with temperature cycling and humidity, fatigue, shock resistance etc. All of the tests are "ESTIMATES", 15 years later you may find that skin oil from handling, exposure to cleaning solvent fumes or high/low humidity or many unknown factors make your ESTIMATE off by factors of 10 or more. The only TRUE test is the test of time. The results will only be accurately know when the actual time of failure occurs.

 

[Dargo]

Well I do own and have shot my 1891 MOSIN, that is well over a century old. What I have stated is my opinion based on many tests of plastics used in the industry I worked for. Proper storage of a metal and wood firearm consists of oiling the metal parts and putting the firearm in a dry location. When this is properly done (as in the storage of many WW1 and WW2 Military firearms stored by the various governments throughout the world there is virtually no degradation.

Polymers are truly untested over long periods of time, but the base material (NYLON 6) is one of the oldest plastics made. It DOES HAVE A HISTORY OF DEGRADATION OVER TIME. I never made any claim that the polymers would fail in normal or heavy use during the first 25 to 50 years. In fact I stated just the opposite. Nor did I claim that they would fail in harsh environments. MY ONLY STATEMENT BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE is that I believe they will degrade over time - the length of time is still not known, while traditional metal and wood materials will last indefinitely with very minor attention.

Will a Glock or other polymer based reciever hold up to normal or heavy use for a users lifetime, possibly, actually it is quite probable. However I want the firearms I purchase to last WAY beyond my lifetime, hopefully for several generations. I stand by my statements - the proof of them will not be seen for many years, probably long after I have passed away.

Obviously you own and want to defend your choice of firearm, that is normal. However, I am not ignorant but I would sure like to question your "proof" I have ran many tests on plastics, for your information (I am sure you will disregard this as it disagrees with your viewpoint) the only way you can predict what will happen to a material is to subject the material to "Accelerated testing". IE: If you are testing to determine how long a material will resist UV degradation, you subject it to an extremely high level of UV for a month or two and based on the degradation of the material, give an estimate of how long it will last. You do the same thing with temperature cycling and humidity, fatigue, shock resistance etc. All of the tests are "ESTIMATES", 15 years later you may find that skin oil from handling, exposure to cleaning solvent fumes or high/low humidity or many unknown factors make your ESTIMATE off by factors of 10 or more. The only TRUE test is the test of time. The results will only be accurately know when the actual time of failure occurs.

As I've attempted to clarify, I am ignorant when it comes to the properties of polymers. I'm certainly not disagreeing with anything anyone has posted as either pragmatic ruminations or theorizations concerning the matter. I want to thank you for your consultation. It has supplemented my postulation on the subject. Sometimes my rather deliberate exploration into a subject matter foreign to my current knowledge can be a bit protracted. That is just how my process of cognition works. Fortunately, I really do not see anything wrong with my rationalization of 1) utilizing polymer framed firearms for my 'everyday use' firearms and 2) my periodic rotation of older polymer framed pistols out of my personal collection in favor of newer polymer framed firearms. I suppose, in lay terms, it is really uncharted territory when it comes to predicting the useful life of a polymer framed pistol. It's not something I'll lose any sleep over and I really do not see any clear-cut miscalculation in my habit of keeping my polymer pistols current. Thanks again all!