Has anyone experienced or heard of older polymer pistols breaking?

[Dargo]

I honestly haven't, but I still wonder about it happening. I dropped a wrench on a plastic pipe that is several years old and it shattered like glass. That just got me wondering if older polymer firearms could suffer the same peril? Oh, BTW, hey everyone. I'm a Hoosier firearm addict and have been for over 30 years and, no, I feel no need to attend rehab for my addiction.

 

[LEaSH]

Welcome, Dargo.

I've not had any polymer pistols break like an old PVC pipe, I'm pretty sure the two are chemically as different as can be.

I prefer steel firearms, personally. But I can't say that is for concerns of durability or fragility. I'd have no problem trusting most of these contemporary polymer firearms.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Polymers aren't created equal! You'll not find polymer pistol made out of PVC like that pipe likely was.

Polymer pistols from their infancy are still going strong.

 

[LarryC]

No, the composition of polymer framed firearms is not the same as PVC pipe (poly vinyl chloride). Although the chemical composition of firearms is proprietary, most sources indicate it is a composition based on Nylon 6 (a very common plastic used for pocket combs and other utilitarian items for many years), other polymers probably are also mixed with the Nylon, possibly Poly propylene or polyethylene. Carbon black (to resist UV degradation) and quite possibly glass fibers or mineral filler (often clay) are added to make the plastic ridged.

As a retired Engineer with nearly 40 years working in an industry that made Automotive and Appliance timers and controls using just about every type of plastics, I do have enough experience to have great reservations about the useable life of ANY plastics compared to wood and steel. Will they fail in 25 years? Really doubt that, but will a firearm made with working parts of polymers be useable in 100 years (as many military are today) - I also really doubt that any will survive that long.

For empirical evidence, take a look at any junkyard full of older automobiles. Almost none that are over 20 years old have intact plastic parts. Automotive engineers have used the best plastic materials available, yet most dashes are cracked, bumpers split etc. in the older cars. My son and I collect firearms, as of this date neither of us have any guns with working parts of plastic - Nor do I intend to ever purchase any polymer firearms. I have many firearms from the first and second world wars and even earlier that are in good, very good and some in excellent condition. All are fully functional, and they will be passed on to my heirs. With proper care and storage, they will be just as functional and in the same condition for several hundred years!

 

[X piller X]

im curious if the cold weather drastically reduces the strength of the polymer as it would with any other plastic

 

[joncon]

I've never heard of a failure at the North Pole or Antarctica do to cold.

 

[Leo]

The left rear slide lug breaking out of the 1st generation Glock 17's is not unheard of. I have seen three of them. I have also seen a barrel lug broken off and a cracked slide. Those parts are are conventional metal. There is a possiblity of all materials to fatigue and fail, especially parts that see stress in a regular basis. Yes, the poly pistols will age and decay. It is a machine, that serves its purpose for a time. None have eternal life. Are you going to keep it that long? Buy what you want and shoot it. If it breaks down while you own it, that is just part of the game.

 

[phylodog]

No, the composition of polymer framed firearms is not the same as PVC pipe (poly vinyl chloride). Although the chemical composition of firearms is proprietary, most sources indicate it is a composition based on Nylon 6 (a very common plastic used for pocket combs and other utilitarian items for many years), other polymers probably are also mixed with the Nylon, possibly Poly propylene or polyethylene. Carbon black (to resist UV degradation) and quite possibly glass fibers or mineral filler (often clay) are added to make the plastic ridged.

As a retired Engineer with nearly 40 years working in an industry that made Automotive and Appliance timers and controls using just about every type of plastics, I do have enough experience to have great reservations about the useable life of ANY plastics compared to wood and steel. Will they fail in 25 years? Really doubt that, but will a firearm made with working parts of polymers be useable in 100 years (as many military are today) - I also really doubt that any will survive that long.

For empirical evidence, take a look at any junkyard full of older automobiles. Almost none that are over 20 years old have intact plastic parts. Automotive engineers have used the best plastic materials available, yet most dashes are cracked, bumpers split etc. in the older cars. My son and I collect firearms, as of this date neither of us have any guns with working parts of plastic - Nor do I intend to ever purchase any polymer firearms. I have many firearms from the first and second world wars and even earlier that are in good, very good and some in excellent condition. All are fully functional, and they will be passed on to my heirs. With proper care and storage, they will be just as functional and in the same condition for several hundred years!

Im obviously not as educated as you are in this area but comparing junk yard cars to 100 year old weapons isn't exactly a fair comparison. A WWII, all steel and wood rifle that was left on a hillside and found 20 years later isn't going to be in very good condition either. People generally take care of firearms better than most other items which are seen as easily replaceable or subject to becoming outdated.

There was a discussion on this topic several years ago where some very informed individuals shared their insight. They seemed confident that the polymers used in handguns would remain stable for well over 100 years. They may not be as durable as wood and obviously not as steel but polymer won't corrode like metal and won't rot or split like wood. Everything is a compromise.

 

[LarryC]

Obviously I disagree with your viewpoint. I do concede that all materials will eventually degrade - even the stone pyramids - but unless a well designed and built firearm is abused by failure to clean and oil, storing in a very moist environment, or firing overpressure loads, most metal and wood firearms will last for centuries. The Russian 1891 Mosin is testament to that.

The "Polymer" firearms are built of a material, that in my opinion, is known to have a limited lifespan. Granted the polymer guns are lighter and cheaper than those machined from metal but I would far rather save my money and buy a more expensive firearm that will not degrade in normal use than a "throwaway" gun. I hope my grandchildren (and those farther down the ages will agree).

By the way, I KNOW my Colt Double Eagle 45 (my EDC) will not fail due to degrading of the stainless steel. I would hate to have my heirs defending themselves or loved ones lives with a 40 or 50 year old polymer firearm that MIGHT. I am looking to purchase a sub-compact 9mm this year - most likely a Kimber Solo.

 

[Hoosierman]

No, the composition of polymer framed firearms is not the same as PVC pipe (poly vinyl chloride). Although the chemical composition of firearms is proprietary, most sources indicate it is a composition based on Nylon 6 (a very common plastic used for pocket combs and other utilitarian items for many years), other polymers probably are also mixed with the Nylon, possibly Poly propylene or polyethylene. Carbon black (to resist UV degradation) and quite possibly glass fibers or mineral filler (often clay) are added to make the plastic ridged.

As a retired Engineer with nearly 40 years working in an industry that made Automotive and Appliance timers and controls using just about every type of plastics, I do have enough experience to have great reservations about the useable life of ANY plastics compared to wood and steel. Will they fail in 25 years? Really doubt that, but will a firearm made with working parts of polymers be useable in 100 years (as many military are today) - I also really doubt that any will survive that long.

For empirical evidence, take a look at any junkyard full of older automobiles. Almost none that are over 20 years old have intact plastic parts. Automotive engineers have used the best plastic materials available, yet most dashes are cracked, bumpers split etc. in the older cars. My son and I collect firearms, as of this date neither of us have any guns with working parts of plastic - Nor do I intend to ever purchase any polymer firearms. I have many firearms from the first and second world wars and even earlier that are in good, very good and some in excellent condition. All are fully functional, and they will be passed on to my heirs. With proper care and storage, they will be just as functional and in the same condition for several hundred years!

For someone who claims to know a lot about polymer compositions, it seems strange that you would compare polymer gun frames to a cheap plastic dash. That alone draws questions about your supposed experience. I don't think a polymer pistol will last hundreds of years with regular use, but neither will steel, as it fatigues as well.

 

[danielson]

NO...
1911s will last a hundred milliondy years, and revolvers even longer.
Glocks will last about 3 shots. M&Ps will last much longer cuz there made in MURICA
AND
A .45 will send a BG's heart right out of his chest with so much velocity, it will kill the BG standing behind him.
You can get hit with 10 .380 rounds and all you will need is a tube of hydrocordizone to stop the itching.

I cant think of any others right now...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Someday in the distant future, a 20th century Glock may actually be a sought after collector's dream.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Obviously I disagree with your viewpoint. I do concede that all materials will eventually degrade - even the stone pyramids - but unless a well designed and built firearm is abused by failure to clean and oil, storing in a very moist environment, or firing overpressure loads, most metal and wood firearms will last for centuries. The Russian 1891 Mosin is testament to that.

The "Polymer" firearms are built of a material, that in my opinion, is known to have a limited lifespan. Granted the polymer guns are lighter and cheaper than those machined from metal but I would far rather save my money and buy a more expensive firearm that will not degrade in normal use than a "throwaway" gun. I hope my grandchildren (and those farther down the ages will agree).

By the way, I KNOW my Colt Double Eagle 45 (my EDC) will not fail due to degrading of the stainless steel. I would hate to have my heirs defending themselves or loved ones lives with a 40 or 50 year old polymer firearm that MIGHT. I am looking to purchase a sub-compact 9mm this year - most likely a Kimber Solo.

Does this mean that someday, in the distant future, a 20th century Glock may actually be a sought after collector's dream.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

HKs VP70 pistols are still working fine, 44 years into their service life.

Harsh envirmonments? The Sirius Patrol of Greenland seems happy with their Glock 20s while partroling above the arctic circle.

Mosin nagants "lasting for centuries"? What planet are you living on? 99% of the Nagants in existance were made in the 1940s. They are only about 70 years old - and they have been submerged in heavy grease for 50 or 60 of those years. The OLDEST Mosins are 123 years old, and very very difficult to find in ANY condition.

A wood and steel firearm will ding/dent/scratch/rust/flake apart just as fast as polymer will degrade. Either kind will last forever if properly cared for and stored in a climate controled environment.

This is a non issue, and not to put too fine a point on it, but if you think polymer pistols wont last 100 years, you are ignorant.

 

[Dargo]

Wow, what a great forum! Thanks to all who have replied!! So, if I'm not too dense (warning - this is possible), polymer firearms are made from superior polymers than common plastic pipes, right? Okay, if so, does that mean that a polymer pistol manufactured in the last year is likely made of superior polymers than one made in, say, the 90's or even ten years ago? I'm not spending any time worrying about my polymer frame pistols, but I also want to be prudent and reasonable. If polymers are better today than they were a decade ago, which would make sense, it seems that I'm best suited to keep my 'use' firearms current. Or, does that not make any sense?

The reason I ask is because my "use" pistols are generally polymer frame pistols whereas my "collect" pistols (and even rifles) are made of steel and wood. Some of my polymer pistols are nearly ten years old, but I honestly have made a habit of turning my older polymer pistols in favor of newer ones because I'm just ignorant of polymers and their longevity. Does anyone else try to keep their polymer firearms 'current'? Heck, I am old enough to still prefer a steel frame pistol over an 'alloy' frame pistol; even though they both are considered steel pistols.

 

[shibumiseeker]

The reason I ask is because my "use" pistols are generally polymer frame pistols whereas my "collect" pistols (and even rifles) are made of steel and wood. Some of my polymer pistols are nearly ten years old, but I honestly have made a habit of turning my older polymer pistols in favor of newer ones because I'm just ignorant of polymers and their longevity. Does anyone else try to keep their polymer firearms 'current'? Heck, I am old enough to still prefer a steel frame pistol over an 'alloy' frame pistol; even though they both are considered steel pistols.

I have a 20 year old Glock 21 that I personally have put something in excess of 15k rounds through and I bought it as a police trade-in and it wasn't one of the nicer ones, it had clearly been shot a bunch.

Comparing it to an almost brand new Glock 20sf I just got, I can't tell any difference in the frame other than just plain wear (and it isn't worn that much for as old and hard used as it is).

I have beat the crap out of some of the polymer framed guns I have under enough conditions, enough to feel pretty confident that they're going to outlast me.

 

[phylodog]

Wow, what a great forum! Thanks to all who have replied!! So, if I'm not too dense (warning - this is possible), polymer firearms are made from superior polymers than common plastic pipes, right? Okay, if so, does that mean that a polymer pistol manufactured in the last year is likely made of superior polymers than one made in, say, the 90's or even ten years ago? I'm not spending any time worrying about my polymer frame pistols, but I also want to be prudent and reasonable. If polymers are better today than they were a decade ago, which would make sense, it seems that I'm best suited to keep my 'use' firearms current. Or, does that not make any sense?

The reason I ask is because my "use" pistols are generally polymer frame pistols whereas my "collect" pistols (and even rifles) are made of steel and wood. Some of my polymer pistols are nearly ten years old, but I honestly have made a habit of turning my older polymer pistols in favor of newer ones because I'm just ignorant of polymers and their longevity. Does anyone else try to keep their polymer firearms 'current'? Heck, I am old enough to still prefer a steel frame pistol over an 'alloy' frame pistol; even though they both are considered steel pistols.

I think you are over-thinking it. There are many polymer pistols which are 20+ years old and have cycled thousands and thousands of rounds and are still running reliably. In today's Internet age, if the problem you are concerning yourself with existed you'd have been provided with an abundance of information on the first page of your thread.

 

[traderdan]

I do not believe that polymers will prove to have the long term durability of a good quality stainless steel...

 

[KG1]

If having and shooting the **** out of a polymer frame pistol for 20+ years is considered to be a "disposable" then so be it. I would not consider a polymer to be an "heirloom" class of firearm. I have those as well that can be handed down but I still own and shoot polymers with no lack of confidence that it will not fail me.

 

[BogWalker]

I don't see it as unreasonable to consider them to degrade, most plastics do, but I'm sure it will take many years for it to cause any considerable weakening.

I wonder how much UV contact makes a difference in the particular polymers?