Gun purchase Denied

[G McBride]

Thanks for all of the help and advise. I'll talk to him at work today and ask about the fine or probation.

He really did not tell me that he was busted for pot until he got his record back from FBI. He went to police station and got fingerprinted and told them the story of being a fugitive of Justice. The local Police ran a check and found nothing so the just fingerprinted him and let him go on his way.

Again thanks. Sounds like I need to ask him more questions. My primary concern was what to tell him to do next. I'll chat with my company attorney also and see what he suggests.

You have all been a big help.

Merry Christmas to all of you.

 

[indymike]

It really is just that simple.

Why do people continuously take risks for these type of things? It just doesn't make any sense to me. Is it really worth it?

Unfortunately, for some, it really is worth it. I certainly am glad that those that are felons convicted of felony drug charges cannot purchase firearms but then to translate that to "don't do drugs" in general is a statement made assuming the user is the exact same person as you with the exact same experiences and circumstances.

I studied some psychobiology in grad school and there is really a lot more to it. When an 18 to 25 year old, hell even older in some cases, without the proper cognitive skills, critical thinking skills and coping mechanisms have brain disorders such as panic disorders, generalized anxiety, major depression, social phobias etc, this is where drugs enter into the equation.

Most abusers have structural brain changes and brain chemistry that is way out of whack due to genetics sometimes but more often due to trauma like PTSD from serial sexual and physical abuse as children when they had no coping skills and critical thinking, PTSD from combat or witness of a violent crime or serious accident of a loved one and refuse therapy and medication, sense of abandonment and loss/blame at a young age from the death of a parent or parents, identity crises as adopted children and subsequent abuse by foster parents, a sense of self-blame for messy divorces, repeated negative life events aka, being unlucky etc etc.

These and many other situations cause irreparable brain chemistry and structural changes that predisposed them to a greater sense of calm, serenity and happy moments from many drugs (feelings they rarely if ever experience)...we get these taken for granted calm, serentity and happy moments and take for granted in normal "happy life moments" like hiking, smiles of our kids, gratitude of coworkers and customers etc.

I am not advocating drug use or endorsing it for these populations, just hoping people will put things into perspective first. Most chronic drugs users don't have the proper education, were raised without good parenting skills and as I stated above, lack proper coping skills and critical thinking to do what you and I consider normal, seek therapy and medical help to try to get through it.

You and I may have encountered traumas mentioned above but we arent those drug users. We simply can't equate a chronic drugs user's genetics and comprehensive life experiences to our own, they cannot be, they aren't us. Possibly similar, but we still cannot equate two human beings in totality as identical so one can't say "if I got over it, so can he". Just doesn't work that way biologically and sociologically.

So that is the why they do it and why they take the risks and if you ask them before they bottom out and find a point in life to get help, they will say "yes, it is worth it".

 

[mskendall]

According to Indiana Law, your buddy would not be a drug abuser...

IC 35-47-1-4
"Drug abuser"
Sec. 4. "Drug abuser" means an individual who has had two (2) or more violations of IC 35-48-1, IC 35-48-2, IC 35-48-3, or IC 35-48-4, any one (1) of which resulted in conviction by a court or treatment in a drug abuse facility within five (5) years prior to the date of application.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

Being denied because he is a fugitive from justice sounds to me like he has active warrants or something...

[federal] Any person who has fled from any State to avoid prosecution for a crime or to avoid giving testimony in any criminal proceeding. 18 U.S.C.

1 pot charge, even 2 or 3, isn't going to disqualify a person for the rest of their life. It has to be deeper.

 

[indykid]

Yes fugitive from justice sounds like there is more too it than just a bit of marijuana.

I personally don't use or have ever done drugs of any kind, but if marijuana was legalized, taxed and regulated like alcohol, there would be a lot more prison space open. Unfortunately like alcohol, people using legalized MJ would still get behind the wheel of cars and kill others, something that doesn't seem to be preventable.

To those opposed to legal use and control of marijuana similar to the laws for booze, do you drink a beer now and then? At one time beer was as illegal as marijuana is. And thanks to those now repealed laws we have the 1934 NFA.

But back to the original problem, fugitive from justice???

 

[Cloverdaleman]

What's is wrong with obeying the laws?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Depends on the laws.

 

[LPMan59]

Don't do drugs!

or just do legal ones. i can think of numerous candyman MDs in Marion and surrounding counties.

 

[MrsGungho]

question 11c
Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?"

a stab in the dark, how long could he have been sentenced for? If yes to this, automatic denial.

 

[G McBride]

I talked with him today and told him that I had posted this question on-line here. I wanted him to maybe get on and give answers to any questions. He doesn't do the internet but his wife does so hopefully they will review this page.

He said that he did 22 days and paid the fine. Ga is a 0 tolerance state or was at that time.

 

[sweddle]

Not the same scenario, but subject related. I was buying a shotgun from a dealer about 4 years ago and when he ran my name through "the system", my name was flagged and he could not sell it to me. I was not in any type of trouble, and had a current LTC permit. The dealer told me sometimes a persons name gets flagged accidentally and to come back in three days. I did and all was fine, took it hunting the next day.

 

[INGunGuy]

I would love to know what were to happen if I were to walk in to my friendly local gun dealer, and say I told them I wanted to buy EVERY firearm they had in the store, every round of ammunition they had on hand at that time, every piece of reloading equipment and supplies they had, basically bought out the ENTIRE store. Would I have to fill out a 4473 for EACH individual firearm and then be called in on EACH firearm to NCIC individually? Also is there a particular legal limit on how many firearms one is allowed to purchase at one time.

INGunGuy

 

[SmellsLikeVictory]

Depends on the laws.

Exactly right!

 

[Yamaha]

I would love to know what were to happen if I were to walk in to my friendly local gun dealer, and say I told them I wanted to buy EVERY firearm they had in the store, every round of ammunition they had on hand at that time, every piece of reloading equipment and supplies they had, basically bought out the ENTIRE store. Would I have to fill out a 4473 for EACH individual firearm and then be called in on EACH firearm to NCIC individually? Also is there a particular legal limit on how many firearms one is allowed to purchase at one time.

INGunGuy

I don't think there is a limit, but god help you when batfe came knocking to check that one out.... There is a limit on powders for reloading IIRC tho

 

[ghille45]

well, I have a question, what about felony charges, but no conviction? can that tie up your LTCH?

 

[public servant]

Unfortunately, for some, it really is worth it. I certainly am glad that those that are felons convicted of felony drug charges cannot purchase firearms but then to translate that to "don't do drugs" in general is a statement made assuming the user is the exact same person as you with the exact same experiences and circumstances.

I studied some psychobiology in grad school and there is really a lot more to it. When an 18 to 25 year old, hell even older in some cases, without the proper cognitive skills, critical thinking skills and coping mechanisms have brain disorders such as panic disorders, generalized anxiety, major depression, social phobias etc, this is where drugs enter into the equation.

Most abusers have structural brain changes and brain chemistry that is way out of whack due to genetics sometimes but more often due to trauma like PTSD from serial sexual and physical abuse as children when they had no coping skills and critical thinking, PTSD from combat or witness of a violent crime or serious accident of a loved one and refuse therapy and medication, sense of abandonment and loss/blame at a young age from the death of a parent or parents, identity crises as adopted children and subsequent abuse by foster parents, a sense of self-blame for messy divorces, repeated negative life events aka, being unlucky etc etc.

These and many other situations cause irreparable brain chemistry and structural changes that predisposed them to a greater sense of calm, serenity and happy moments from many drugs (feelings they rarely if ever experience)...we get these taken for granted calm, serentity and happy moments and take for granted in normal "happy life moments" like hiking, smiles of our kids, gratitude of coworkers and customers etc.

I am not advocating drug use or endorsing it for these populations, just hoping people will put things into perspective first. Most chronic drugs users don't have the proper education, were raised without good parenting skills and as I stated above, lack proper coping skills and critical thinking to do what you and I consider normal, seek therapy and medical help to try to get through it.

You and I may have encountered traumas mentioned above but we arent those drug users. We simply can't equate a chronic drugs user's genetics and comprehensive life experiences to our own, they cannot be, they aren't us. Possibly similar, but we still cannot equate two human beings in totality as identical so one can't say "if I got over it, so can he". Just doesn't work that way biologically and sociologically.

So that is the why they do it and why they take the risks and if you ask them before they bottom out and find a point in life to get help, they will say "yes, it is worth it".

I'm sorry...did you say something??

Just kidding.

 

[Aaronhome27]

I lived down south some years ago. moved back up here in 1999. I went thru a major testing, physical, psych eval and full background history check for a very good job a few years back. Was offered the job during a very long training session. At the end of the training I was told that my job offer was pulled because my back ground check showed that I was a "fugitive from justice". After doing some searching I found that I had written a $27 check to a gas station nearly 6 years ago. They waited about 3 months before depositing it. Well it must have slipped thru the cracks because we did not catch it nor did we have any knowledge of it because we closed the account 60 days after moving as it was a local city bank. I had been a fugitive from justice for nearly 6 years and never knew it. I promptly called the local court house down there and contacted the business owner. It took about 2 months to clear up but it was at that point cleared up. Imagine the shock of finding something out like that when you actually had a perfect record. Point is that sometimes you just truely do not know what is on your record. I was never notified of this. But it went on my record. I really had to search to find it there to. They dont just write down what happened. It took sometime to find then fix the problem. After paying a court fee and paying the $27 to the business owner my record was once again cleaned up.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

well, I have a question, what about felony charges, but no conviction? can that tie up your LTCH?

It depends.

1. Was the case nolle'd (dismissed), finding of not guilty, or vacation of the conviction by a higher court?

2. Is the case still pending?

3. Is there a withhold judgment or forsenic diversion?

4. Or, was there just an arrest but no prosecution (no charges filed)?

What happened?

 

[ghille45]

basically, I got in a altercation with three guys, i shoved one, had one swing at me from behind, I dropped him then got tackled, I got kicked by one of the standing fellows so I bit off the ear of the one on the ground with me, jumped up threw a few punches, got away and started booking it, ran into a bunch of cops around the corner and the dudes and there girls started screaming bloody murder. I got rolled up, charged with 2nd degree agrravated battery, which is a felony, took it to court, got it taken to pre trial intervention, had to pay the guys medical bills and was on probation for a year, did the year and got the charges dropped. that's it. I have a CCW in NC, but I held it before this happened.

 

[INGunGuy]

I don't think there is a limit, but god help you when batfe came knocking to check that one out.... There is a limit on powders for reloading IIRC tho

Yes a max of 50lbs of powder, but I think you can get around that by building a bunker style storage area. Not sure, anyway... So the BATF comes knocking on your door, my next step would be like this...

DING DONG (Door Bell Rings)

Me: Yes, can I help you?

FEDGOV GOON: Yes, I am from the BATF, we need to speak about your recent purchase.

Me: Do you have a warrant?

FEDGOV GOON: No

Me: Slams door in face of FEDGOV GOON laughing all the way back to the TV.

INGunGuy

 

[Kirk Freeman]

So, is that a withhold judgment? Which state was this?