Gun Club For Liberals

[patience0830]

Post of the month. Sadly this will go over the heads of too many people on this forum.

In your opinion, FWIW. NOT over my head, but it ignores the fact that, as a party, liberal democrats tend to vote as a block and that block is anti-gun. As well as being capable of incredible cognitive disonance when it comes to the Constitution. Not that the radical right is always completely logical, but there seems to be MORE logic there if your goal is a free state, run by its citizens. Not dictatorship by a few who claim to know how to run you.

 

[shibumiseeker]

In your opinion, FWIW. NOT over my head, but it ignores the fact that, as a party, liberal democrats tend to vote as a block and that block is anti-gun.

I didn't ignore that fact. I said, if you bothered to read it, that the best way to GET the liberal democrats to become less anti-gun is to get more of their base to be 2A supporters. This is NOT accomplished if all they ever encounter on gun groups, at shooting ranges, in gun shops, is constant liberal bashing. Because that is the simple reality of the way most of these places are. They are NOT welcoming to someone who wants to learn about guns and shooting but who doesn't also buy into everything Rush Limbaugh says.

I tried to be a FB friend of the new gun shop in Paoli because when I went in they seemed like a decent gun shop, but all the owner ever did was post rants about his non-gun political views and being very vocal about how if you didn't believe everything he did that you were not welcome in his shop. I would like to say that was the extreme, but it's not. For too many people their views on guns are tied far too closely with their views on other issues and if you don't buy into everything then you are the enemy.

A right wing conservative is NOT going to be able to go to a place where a lot of liberals hang out and spread the gospel of the 2A, but people who are already part of those social circles CAN, and we need as many of those people as we can get because, as I said, they are the ones who can convince the liberal politicians to become more pro-gun.

 

[Bogan]

In your opinion, FWIW. NOT over my head, but it ignores the fact that, as a party, liberal democrats tend to vote as a block and that block is anti-gun. As well as being capable of incredible cognitive disonance when it comes to the Constitution. Not that the radical right is always completely logical, but there seems to be MORE logic there if your goal is a free state, run by its citizens. Not dictatorship by a few who claim to know how to run you.

This is exemplar for my statement. Plus terribly erroneous perceptions thrown in, for good measure.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

How so very Jeffersonian of you!

You should see the powdered wig (or Whig? HAH!) that I'm going to wear to my next ACT class...

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Something to keep in mind, folks:

Liberal =/= Leftist

The last several dozen years, however, the Leftist movement has co-opted "liberal" to be their own tagline - along with "progressive".

Do no be fooled. The overwhelming majority of those who tag themselves with "liberal" don't have one clue as to what it really means. They should be using "Leftist" instead.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

There are pockets where we see that very thing happening - Pueblo Colorado for instance. They "fired" their representation because it was anti-2A, yet the county is largely Democrat. It can and does happen.

In the south - lot of southern Democrats - love their guns and refuse to vote anti-2A - Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, South Carolina, etc.

I can agree to disagree on darn near any issue - personal behavior or even fiscal responsibility - but we as gun owners should be able to stand shoulder to shoulder when it comes to constitutionally guaranteed rights i.e. 2A.

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

I've spent a bit of time browsing their forum since I first saw this post. They've got some interesting discussions and their fair share of crackpots (just like we do). I'd be curious to see how various political views are received. Honestly, I'm saddened that INGO as a community responds so harshly to discussion from other political/social perspectives. I think good discussions would add a great deal of value to us as a community. Right now, pretty much everything is very one-sided. Much of it I agree with, some of it...let's just say that some of you folks out there need to lube up your mental gears as much as you do your firearms, not everything is working the way it probably should! We've all seen the occasional post that makes us go .

 

[sb0]

I agree the term "liberal" has some confusion attached because fiscal responsibility and issues of social involvement are thrown together. Personally I don't care what people do in their personal life (i.e. abortion, homosexuality, drug use/alcohol use, etc.) - there's no reason to assume social liberals are anti-gun. On the other side, fiscal responsibility gets fuzzy but generally those who prefer government intervention in certain areas of life do not necessarily indicate whether a person is anti-gun or not. However, when it comes to a world view that's toward socialism and the ilk, it's difficult to see that person as pro-gun or pro-2A because that mind set seems to be more toward government control of safety, further from personal responsibility including responsibility to one's own safety regarding personal threats.

Modern "liberals" - at least in the media - appear to be all on the same side of the fence with regard to all three and therefore the confusion. I'm sure there are a lot of old-school "liberals" out there that are pro-2A, but you never hear from them.

Liberalism is not what it used to be.

I'm 25.

These people in my generation and slightly beyond are the polar opposite of what "liberals" were 50 years ago, in the sense that they are not rebelling against mainstream society by coming up with their own thoughts, they ARE mainstream society. Look at the media. There is no intellectual introspection required to be a liberal these days.

When you're dealing with someone who is braindead enough to buy the left wing narrative hook line and sinker, as an all inclusive package, you're not going to see much divergence of opinion. And when you say liberal to me, I think motherjones.com. Go on there and read the comments sometime. It's practically a cult. That is the face of contemporary American liberalism.

Some will take offense to that, and insist that that's not really what liberalism means. And technically, it's not. But it doesn't matter. Political terms change with the times. People like that have taken the term and run with it, so for the purposes of discussion, we use it, there's no better term available.

And this isn't a democrat thing, this is a liberal thing. Not every Obama voter does (or should) identify as a liberal.

Yes, certain opinions will tend to correspond with others, because they're based on the same general sociological outlook. So that may to some extent explain why fiscal liberals (a gross mischaracterization if there ever was one) tend to be anti-2A.

But modern day "social liberals", were they truly social liberals (big on the 4A, 1A, etc), should absolutely be pro 2A. It's right in line with their views. Liberty over safety. Why aren't they? Well, see above. The bulk of them didn't reach their conclusions based on any actual analysis, because if they had, their conclusions would follow the same logical continuum.

Now that's not to say that there aren't plenty of right wing conservatives who buy the right wing narrative hook like and sinker, but obviously being anti-2A is not part of that, so I'll make the opposite of this argument another day.

Disclaimer: Not all liberals are exactly the same blah blah blah, yes, but we're talking generalizations here, for obvious reasons.

 

[rhino]

I use the term "pseudo-liberal, socialist-statist."

They call themselves "liberal," but they're only liberal for the things they think are okay.

I think it's more muddles because "they" have become the establishment against which they railed in the 60s and 70s. Oddly they're also much worse than the establishment of that time period in terms of intolerance of behaviors and views that offend their beliefs.

Something to keep in mind, folks:

Liberal =/= Leftist

The last several dozen years, however, the Leftist movement has co-opted "liberal" to be their own tagline - along with "progressive".

Do no be fooled. The overwhelming majority of those who tag themselves with "liberal" don't have one clue as to what it really means. They should be using "Leftist" instead.

 

[PKendall317]

I thought this article was interesting, although I don't think I could stand to be in a room with these people for very long. I find it interesting that these people are apparently pro-2A yet at the same time would vote for people who would limit their 2A rights.

 

[rhino]

I thought this article was interesting, although I don't think I could stand to be in a room with these people for very long. I find it interesting that these people are apparently pro-2A yet at the same time would vote for people who would limit their 2A rights.

Indeed!

 

[Expat]

Remember the good old days when we were told here how President Obama was the best friend gun owners had ever had in the WH...
Maybe in a way he has been. He certainly has caused an uptick in gun ownership. Hopefully he woke some people up. But apparently not enough.

 

[Jack Burton]

these folk will never amount to anything until they learn not to be so reflexively, unthinking biased...


For example... She has no use, however, for the NRA's conservative political agenda


Sorry, lady, but the NRA only has ONE agenda... and that is the 2nd Amendment. It takes no stands on any other issues or agendas.

and...Within the gun community, she says, conservatives have a stereotype about the kind of guns liberals like. "Conservatives assume, when they hear of our existence, that we're all into fancy double-barreled shotguns and rifles with wooden stocks."

I doubt that this lady knows a conservative gun owner or has even met with one.

 

[rhino]

Actually NRA and NRA-ILA are pretty pro-First Amendment as well.

these folk will never amount to anything until they learn not to be so reflexively, unthinking biased...


For example... She has no use, however, for the NRA's conservative political agenda


Sorry, lady, but the NRA only has ONE agenda... and that is the 2nd Amendment. It takes no stands on any other issues or agendas.

and...Within the gun community, she says, conservatives have a stereotype about the kind of guns liberals like. "Conservatives assume, when they hear of our existence, that we're all into fancy double-barreled shotguns and rifles with wooden stocks."

I doubt that this lady knows a conservative gun owner or has even met with one.

 

[Jack Burton]

Actually NRA and NRA-ILA are pretty pro-First Amendment as well.

Only as it relates to the 2nd and/or their ability to defend it. If a kid is banned wearing a t-shirt in school that says, I like Glocks the NRA will get involved. If the t-shirt says, I like skateboarding you'll never hear from the NRA about it.

 

[cobber]

Only as it relates to the 2nd and/or their ability to defend it. If a kid is banned wearing a t-shirt in school that says, I like Glocks the NRA will get involved. If the t-shirt says, I like skateboarding you'll never hear from the NRA about it.

Isn't that the ACLU's thing? And they don't pay much attention to the 2d A...

 

[Maximinus Thrax]

I thought this article was interesting, although I don't think I could stand to be in a room with these people for very long. I find it interesting that these people are apparently pro-2A yet at the same time would vote for people who would limit their 2A rights.

I've looked over the forums, it seems they themselves can't quite figure out that little identity crisis... Some say they go so far as to even vote Republican *gasp* in cases where the choice is limit the 2A vs leave it alone.

 

[Bennettjh]

Post of the month. Sadly this will go over the heads of too many people on this forum.

It's good you're so knowledgeable about what INGO members can understand or not. Might as well close the thread. It's over our heads.

 

[CitiusFortius]

Oh God, if I post in this thread, it will most likely solidify my reputation as a "known liberal", as I have been accused of being by a member here. I actually detest labels and don't really fit into a political pigeonhole.

ha, you too?

 

[rhino]

It's good you're so knowledgeable about what INGO members can understand or not. Might as well close the thread. It's over our heads.

Oh, man! Without your quote, I would never have seen that exercise in condescension! Remember: what I don't see can't irritate me!