gas garage heating questions.

[IndyGunworks]

We have something like this SG Series - SunStar Heating Products, Inc. in our 4,000 square foot shop. It heats up quick and our gas bill isn't bad at all. I believe they also make them for propane. Installation is very easy. We keep the thermostat in the shop at 55degrees over night. When the first person comes in around 8am, they turn it up to 65, and it's at temp in about 30 minutes. The far end of the shop, opposite of the heater and thermostat is bout 5 degrees cooler, but still comfortable. SG Series - SunStar Heating Products, Inc.

Any idea what that costs? I am assuming you have more than one for 4000 square feet?

 

[IndyGunworks]

Not everyone parks a cannon in their 2nd bay....

That's the third bay..... The first two just use the same garage door. And normally that's where I park my truck (backed in to be ready for the VOLY fire dept runs)... the fourth bay is in the back and has a 9'6" overhead, on a low overhead opener. the remaining TWO "bays" are my dedicated work area, and then I have a portion of the 7x24 connecting section dedicated to gunsmithing/reloading.

I do think the garage would probably qualify as a 6 car garage even though I only have garage door openings for 4 vehicles.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Gotcha. I would too. My garage isn't insulated or finished but I'm thinking that spray in sure would be eaiser. What are the approximate dimensions of your garage (plus wall height)? I could use that info to estimate a $/sq ft.

So these numbers may not be the best for you, but the garage is 40x40 with a 7x24 breezeway...... so 24 foot of that wall space was the extereior of the house already insulated. I have an 18x8, 12x8, and 12x9'6" overhead doors. Two 36" wide walk in doors. 5 full size windows, and 3 half size windows.

So that's 150 foot of walls, at 10 foot tall

1500 square foot of wall space minus the before mentioned non sprayed spots, and the guy who owns the company originally started it 50/50 with a firefighter who then sold his share to the guy, so I got a pretty substantial firemens discount. I would guess it was around a 20% discount.

I paid 1,494.00

If you do the math let me know what you figure it out to be.

 

[IndyGunworks]

that was for 3" nominal thickness ICYNENE open cell, but they put it on way thicker than 3 inch's....

 

[indyjohn]

I still need to get OG out to see the place. Tomorrow we're going to Bloomington to look at some models.

 

[CountryBoy19]

WTH? You only have TWO bays?

I think, judging by the pictures it would be considered a "6 bay" by most real estate standards ... the 18 foot door on the left is 2 bays, the 12 foot on the right is a bay, the 12 foot in the rear is a bay, and there are 2 bays that don't have their own door (must share a door with the front bays)... that's not to say he uses them all as bays. Looks like they're being used for "work areas" which is exactly how I'd be using them if I had a garage as nice as that...

 

[IndyGunworks]

correct.... the rear bay is the tall door to allow the large ag equipment to get into the garage to be worked on, so I don't have to haul tools to the barn. It also works as a pull through bay and allows me to open front and back during the summer which causes a hell of a breeze to come through and keeps the place cool, (albeit windy).

the two open bay spots that don't have garage doors is the area I am leaving open for all the projects I do all the time. If I don't have some sort of project in the works to dink around on I start to go stir crazy.

 

[Reagan40]

Any idea what that costs? I am assuming you have more than one for 4000 square feet?

We actually only have one of them. If we put another one on the other side of the shop, the heat would be a bit more even, but it works for us. Most of our shop work happens on one side of the shop. I don't remember exactly, but I think it cost us somewhere in the $600-$700 dollar range. Ours is natural gas, but Im pretty sure they make a propane version as well. I believe ours is the SG 14, which is 4 burners. The picture on that link shows a smaller 3 burner model. The specifications PDF shows the different models. For a garage of your size, it might make sense to do two of the smaller ones on opposing sides of the garage.

 

[IndyGunworks]

hmm....interesting.... I am having a hard time seeing that working that well.... I used those radian propane heaters in the last garage and it was only 400 square feet.... It took over an hour to get it to 65 degrees and they sucked fuel like crazy.

 

[bocefus78]

I'm no math genius, hvac guy, and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn at all this year, but here is what I can tell you.

My 35K btu propane torpedo heater uses 20lb tanks in 10-11 hours. So if that unit you posted is twice the btu, I'm going to assume its using twice as much propane. That means 20lbs in 5 hours give or take.

Propane weighs 4.2lbs per gallon. 20lb tank/4.2lbs per gallon= 4.76 gallons in a 20lb tank. I don't know what you pay per gallon in bulk tanks like yours, but my chitty math skills say you will burn somewhere around 1 gallon per hour of run time on that unit you posted.

You say you are a cheap ass.....I'd start looking at wood stoves then. The above numbers don't sound cheap to me.

 

[ghuns]

I have a Modine Hot Dawg in the garage. Love it. Think it's 60K BTUs. Garage is 24 X 36.

When I went to an outdoor wood boiler, I just screwed a 12 x 12 heat exchanger to it's face and turned the gas off.

If it's cool, but I don't want to light a fire in the boiler, I just turn the gas back on.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

So these numbers may not be the best for you, but the garage is 40x40 with a 7x24 breezeway...... so 24 foot of that wall space was the extereior of the house already insulated. I have an 18x8, 12x8, and 12x9'6" overhead doors. Two 36" wide walk in doors. 5 full size windows, and 3 half size windows.

So that's 150 foot of walls, at 10 foot tall

1500 square foot of wall space minus the before mentioned non sprayed spots, and the guy who owns the company originally started it 50/50 with a firefighter who then sold his share to the guy, so I got a pretty substantial firemens discount. I would guess it was around a 20% discount.

I paid 1,494.00

If you do the math let me know what you figure it out to be.

Just rough calculating: That comes out to about 1000 sq-ft of spraying. (guessed on your door and window sizes) At $1500, that comes out to about $1.50/sq-ft == your cost. Then since I'm not a fireman , I wouldn't get that discount so that means I'd pay between $1.90-$2/sq-ft. Thanks for the info. At least that gives me something to consider....work vs. $$$????

 

[IndyGunworks]

I'm no math genius, hvac guy, and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn at all this year, but here is what I can tell you.

My 35K btu propane torpedo heater uses 20lb tanks in 10-11 hours. So if that unit you posted is twice the btu, I'm going to assume its using twice as much propane. That means 20lbs in 5 hours give or take.

Propane weighs 4.2lbs per gallon. 20lb tank/4.2lbs per gallon= 4.76 gallons in a 20lb tank. I don't know what you pay per gallon in bulk tanks like yours, but my chitty math skills say you will burn somewhere around 1 gallon per hour of run time on that unit you posted.

You say you are a cheap ass.....I'd start looking at wood stoves then. The above numbers don't sound cheap to me.

I did look into woodstoves... almost bought one but here is how it shook out.

Decent used wood stove off craigslist UL listed, with manual for manufacturer recommended installation would run at least 800. Insurance would require professional installation at around 1800 bucks. So that's 2600 dollars.

The wood stove cannot be set to keep the garage above freezing which is a major CON since the garage falling below freezing will cost more money in the long run w/ glue's expoxies, and paints getting ruined.

I have only found ONE insurance company that would insure the place with a wood stove in the garage, (travelers) and its 200 dollars a year more.

The furnace will cost me 1k and installation wont be much at all because I can do that myself.

Lets say I have 500 dollars in additional cost for the installation... that's 900 dollars cheaper than the wood stove.

So the difference in insurance pays for 200 gallons of propane (cost 99 cents a gallon to fill my 1k tank in the summer) each year already paid for one way or another. Plus an additional 900 gallons worth paid for one time.

Some people heat their entire house, cooking, and hot water with 500 gallons a year. So for lesser amount that I would be using the furnace I anticipate about 300 gallons a year.

200 are paid for already as we discussed, so the difference in the install will give me the balance of 9 years right off the batt.

I can set the thermostat to 45 degrees and when I want to use it I can be at 65 in less than an hour, and when I am done, I turn it off. I also don't have to dedicate a bunch of time into cutting splitting stacking seasoning and storing firewood.

to me it seems well worth the idea of going with the furnace, unless you can shine some light on it another way?

Also the 20 pound propane tanks cost SIGNIFICANTLY more for the propane than when I buy in bulk. and the furnace is 92% efficient vs. 80 or less with the other type of systems including the wood burner.

So unless I am missing something major here I am having a hard time making the argument for the wood stove.

 

[IndyGunworks]

I still need to get OG out to see the place. Tomorrow we're going to Bloomington to look at some models.

Yes you do... but at this point if you wait another month or two the garage will be really put together by the time you get here.....I have a few things in the works that are above and beyond what I already have going and hopefully I can have some heat soon.... that's if churchmouse and I can work things out.... He may not have the best of news once he comes out and sees what he is getting into.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Just rough calculating: That comes out to about 1000 sq-ft of spraying. (guessed on your door and window sizes) At $1500, that comes out to about $1.50/sq-ft == your cost. Then since I'm not a fireman , I wouldn't get that discount so that means I'd pay between $1.90-$2/sq-ft. Thanks for the info. At least that gives me something to consider....work vs. $$$????

Let me tell you this.... when they sprayed it I could see it coming out of all sorts of gaps and cracks in the exterior sheathing.... It was at that point when I truly understood the value I was getting.... the sealing properties is something that no other insulation can do, and that's very hard to put a value to.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Let me tell you this.... when they sprayed it I could see it coming out of all sorts of gaps and cracks in the exterior sheathing.... It was at that point when I truly understood the value I was getting.... the sealing properties is something that no other insulation can do, and that's very hard to put a value to.

My dad still, to this day, talks about, and regrets not getting his garage spray foamed when he built it. His plan was to insulate it but not heat it... but that plan changed a couple years after building it and it was too late. 15 years later he just mentioned to me a week ago that he regrets not getting spray foam done because you can see evidence of air infiltration around outlets etc.

At minimum I would NEVER build an insulated structure without at least getting a thin layer of spray foam done (1" or so) to stop the air infiltration.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Let me tell you this.... when they sprayed it I could see it coming out of all sorts of gaps and cracks in the exterior sheathing.... It was at that point when I truly understood the value I was getting.... the sealing properties is something that no other insulation can do, and that's very hard to put a value to.

That's another reason I'd really like to do that.

 

[Reagan40]

hmm....interesting.... I am having a hard time seeing that working that well.... I used those radian propane heaters in the last garage and it was only 400 square feet.... It took over an hour to get it to 65 degrees and they sucked fuel like crazy.

If you ever find yourself in Madison county and want to check it out, let me know. We have been happy with it, but it may not be exactly what you are looking for.

 

[IndyGunworks]

I am just guessing that material on two of those would be pretty damn close to the 1k I would have in a furnace.... but the furnace will heat the whole space evenly..... Install might be cheaper on them and not require ductwork, but at this point I don't think I am going to get a workable solution for as cheap as I was hoping for....

 

[Reagan40]

I am just guessing that material on two of those would be pretty damn close to the 1k I would have in a furnace.... but the furnace will heat the whole space evenly..... Install might be cheaper on them and not require ductwork, but at this point I don't think I am going to get a workable solution for as cheap as I was hoping for....

One of these days, when I build a new house and garage, I've been thinking about using these for the garage. One benefit I see is that I could install one, and if it didn't heat as evenly as I would like, I could add the other one at a later time. For me, I don't mind some variation in temperature as long as I am not freezing or sweating anywhere. So, if evenness is a priority for you, I would think a furnace with duct work or one of those sock type systems would do a better job of heating evenly. From the cost standpoint, I would likely go with one or two of the 3 burner units instead of the 4 burner unit we have in the shop. I think I saw one of the three burner units online somewhere for around $375. So, if one would do it, you could probably be completely done with it for under $500. You are probably right though, if you ended up needing two, the furnace and duct work may be a little more expensive when it is all said and done, but the result may be better.