Gardening Help, When do I till?

[bwframe]

 

[Vlad the Impaler]

We have started our peppers and tomatoes indoors with the large peat pellets.
They are germinated with the help of a heating pad set on low beneath them.
We then harden them by removing the heat and moving to a cool windowsill in the basement, followed by the patio cement outdoors.
If frost is still a threat when planted in the tilled garden, we have used the burpee "water walls". Those get removed when it's certain the frost isn't coming back. We probably have about 15 of these things, but have had them for years.
FWIW, I don't have any connection to Jiffy or Burpee, I just have success with these products when wanting an early start to the garden.

 

[Zoub]

This thread has really had me thinking on when to start. I hesitate to plant even the early spring outdoor starts on schedule because I just don't see much in the way of growth. Cool/cold tolerant is different than being able to thrive in cool/cold. If we don't get up to seasonal temps, I don't see me planting in the ground anytime soon. I'm going to wait for conditions that won't stress the plants so much.

In 2011 we had our first garden in Wisconsin and at that time we lived in Southern WI but 50 yards off Lake Michigan. I actually planted some parts of the garden 4 times. Luckily I found a great source for cheap plants but there is no replacement for warm soil. Plants that get shocked never seem to be that robust. We were kind of fooled by what seemed to be warm enough temps. The lake really moderates temps so soil warms up slower but then in Fall stays warmer a bit laterin the season. I would guess a lot of Indiana this year will be more like farther North in terms of planting dates.

Now having moved from Zone 5b to 3b I went to the local grower and told them I learned the hard way in Racine Memorial Day seems to be ideal for Wisconsin. She said since they are so busy with their business they don't even get their own garden planted until Fathers Day. I was a bit surprised but again, waiting on the soil to warm up helps their garden catch right up with others who planted sooner. I just plan to have healthy plants ready to go but I will wait on soil temps.

 

[JohnMcClane]

Indiana vegetable planting calendar

I find this a helpful reference...

 

[bwframe]

Indiana vegetable planting calendar

I find this a helpful reference...

Purdue has a lot of great guides and information.
That one was last revised in 2000. Didn't I hear something about our temp zones getting changed last year?

 

[Khazik]

I'm going to wait til I start pickin Morels to put anything outside =/. I'm not having an escapade like last year; everything got warm and blooming, put it all outside... HARD FROST.

 

[Chase515]

I picked up 9 2x12x8's today to build a raised garden. Final size will be 4x8 raised 36 inches above the ground, there were 3 4x4x8 treated posts laying behind the garage begging to be used for a project. I Thompson water sealed one side of the 2x12's today and plan on doing the other side tomorrow. Hopefully I can get this assembled and full of good dirt next weekend and participate in this thread usefully. Gotta go back to menards and pick up the wooden half barrels I saw in the garden section, visions of carrots and maybe garlic. Need to pick up some garden fabric to line the inside of the raised garden with not sure if the lumber I picked up was pressure treated or not.

 

[Slawburger]

I picked up 9 2x12x8's today to build a raised garden. Final size will be 4x8 raised 36 inches above the ground, there were 3 4x4x8 treated posts laying behind the garage begging to be used for a project. I Thompson water sealed one side of the 2x12's today and plan on doing the other side tomorrow. Hopefully I can get this assembled and full of good dirt next weekend and participate in this thread usefully. Gotta go back to menards and pick up the wooden half barrels I saw in the garden section, visions of carrots and maybe garlic. Need to pick up some garden fabric to line the inside of the raised garden with not sure if the lumber I picked up was pressure treated or not.

I have heard that using pressure treated lumber allows chemicals to leach into the soil. The debate is over whether enough chemicals will be absorbed by the food to be of concern. I opted for non-treated lumber.

 

[nighthawk80]

I have heard that using pressure treated lumber allows chemicals to leach into the soil. The debate is over whether enough chemicals will be absorbed by the food to be of concern. I opted for non-treated lumber.

I used treated lumber, but used a non petrol based black plastic to line the inside before I put the dirt in. I forget the name of the stuff, but I bought it at Menards.

 

[88GT]

Treated lumber no longer uses the arsenic-based preservative. The current preservative is copper-based. There is very low toxicity in the preservative itself. Even less once its been applied to the product since exposure is reduced. Short of eating a deck's worth of the lumber, there's very little risk from the copper-based preservative.

 

[Onionsanddragons]

Treated lumber isn't any real risk unless it was creosote treated like rr ties. That stuff is bad. Stuff like copper and arsenic are not transferable from the plants, it is bound up by them generally. Also the amounts leached are so small it wouldn't be an issue anyway.

on another note I have a question for all of you fine folks:

Why do you till?

 

[88GT]

Treated lumber isn't any real risk unless it was creosote treated like rr ties. That stuff is bad. Stuff like copper and arsenic are not transferable from the plants, it is bound up by them generally. Also the amounts leached are so small it wouldn't be an issue anyway.

on another note I have a question for all of you fine folks:

Why do you till?

I don't till per we because I have raised beds, but I do turn it over by hand with a fork for the same reason people till: break up the hard pack from a winter's worth of settling to improve aeration and drainage and to expose weed seeds to help prevent their germination. I let my chickens in the beds too for this reason....until I get things planted that is.

 

[Onionsanddragons]

Disturbing the soil actually encourages weed seeds to germinate, however that is a moot issue if one can run birds through the area. Light turning is great if you have chickens.

I bring the question up because in the long run it is pretty detrimental to the soil health if tilled regularly beyond the top couple few inches. People see great results after tilling the first year, but often do not realize it is because a great deal of the fungal and micro organic soil life was killed through the process and is now acting as a compost of sorts. Unfortunately, it takes multiple years to work that net back up to a healthy, natural level, and the soil is much less effective at nutrient and element transmission without that fungal network.

In raised beds it isn't a big thing, because you would be adding compost and such every year to recharge. The same isn't nearly as effective on natural soil, as a lot of the benefits of the compost gets leeched away without the fungal network to gobble it up and slowly trade it with the plants root systems.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Disturbing the soil actually encourages weed seeds to germinate, however that is a moot issue if one can run birds through the area. Light turning is great if you have chickens.

I bring the question up because in the long run it is pretty detrimental to the soil health if tilled regularly beyond the top couple few inches. People see great results after tilling the first year, but often do not realize it is because a great deal of the fungal and micro organic soil life was killed through the process and is now acting as a compost of sorts. Unfortunately, it takes multiple years to work that net back up to a healthy, natural level, and the soil is much less effective at nutrient and element transmission without that fungal network.

In raised beds it isn't a big thing, because you would be adding compost and such every year to recharge. The same isn't nearly as effective on natural soil, as a lot of the benefits of the compost gets leeched away without the fungal network to gobble it up and slowly trade it with the plants root systems.

I've thought a lot about the loss of soil structure from over-working. In my raised beds, for many crops I've started to just scratch up enough to plant seeds or just put in starts without turning the whole bed, and I've gotten good results. I add compost around the plants as they grow and mulch with old leaves and straw to keep weeds down. Not sure, but I think I'm seeing many more worms in the places where I do dig since I started that.

 

[88GT]

Tilling once or even twice a year is not going to harm the soil structure or health significantly. Especially a light till just to break up clumps.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Tilling once or even twice a year is not going to harm the soil structure or health significantly. Especially a light till just to break up clumps.

I like to experiment, so I'm gonna designate one of my beds as "no till" and compare it to the others as time goes. Cause as Chris Rock says "Ya Nevah Know".

 

[88GT]

I like to experiment, so I'm gonna designate one of my beds as "no till" and compare it to the others as time goes. Cause as Chris Rock says "Ya Nevah Know".

Does your significant other know you kiss and tell on a public forum?

I consider my garden one gigantic experiment every year. Or maybe it's more accurate to call it a series of experiments. There's always a "What happens if I do this?" taking place in it. Might I suggest keeping a garden journal if you don't already do so. I have tried to keep one every year since I started, but always find myself aay behind about mid-July. And kicking myself for it in January when I start planning things out because I can't remember some detail that I had wanted to remember.

 

[Onionsanddragons]

I've thought a lot about the loss of soil structure from over-working. In my raised beds, for many crops I've started to just scratch up enough to plant seeds or just put in starts without turning the whole bed, and I've gotten good results. I add compost around the plants as they grow and mulch with old leaves and straw to keep weeds down. Not sure, but I think I'm seeing many more worms in the places where I do dig since I started that.

This is what most current soil biology seems to suggest being optimal. The increased presence of earthworms is really encouraging, and great news. If you can maintain an environment rich in decomposing matter, the worms will do any tilling that is really needed while leaving behind some of the best fertilizer out there.

88GT makes a really great point w the journal. I'm slowly working out an excel form for expediency, but I've got low drive for that when I can be spending that time doing more coursework or stuff outside now. I'm sure I'll put some more into it once summer is at its height. Anyway, journaling can be really helpful even just to help figure out when and where to rotate crops. Any little observation can be that small piece of data that tips you to a juicy discovery!

 

[88GT]

Does your significant other know you kiss and tell on a public forum?

I consider my garden one gigantic experiment every year. Or maybe it's more accurate to call it a series of experiments. There's always a "What happens if I do this?" taking place in it. Might I suggest keeping a garden journal if you don't already do so. I have tried to keep one every year since I started, but always find myself waay behind about mid-July. And kicking myself for it in January when I start planning things out because I can't remember some detail that I had wanted to remember.

And I just noticed that you do keep a journal from the other thread I started about garden journals. I have a short memory on who posts in what apparently.

 

[88GT]

This is what most current soil biology seems to suggest being optimal. The increased presence of earthworms is really encouraging, and great news. If you can maintain an environment rich in decomposing matter, the worms will do any tilling that is really needed while leaving behind some of the best fertilizer out there.

I turn the whole bed, which for most beds is 4' x 8' x 12" every year before planting. My beds are TEEMING with earthworms. If you're going to ameliorate the soil with organic matter, you have to turn it over.