Frontsight opinions needed

[Clay319]

I have to agree completely with roscott. You can probably find equal training here in Indiana. Are you going to find it for the same cost? Maybe, maybe not. There certainly is something to be said for Indiana being convenient. I can't say that I've been to every training site in the country or even in Indiana. However I was satisfied enough with Frontsight to take my family with me on two occasions. SOME OF THE BEST MONEY I EVER SPENT!

A quick note on the Vegas /Parump location:

Skip the casinos. Use the money you save on more ammo.
Yes the Saddle West Hotel is a dive but you will be too tired to care. And Nick makes great omelettes.
If you are thinking about picking up a couple hookers you are there for the wrong training.

If I get more time I can list some of the things we got to do. Unless you are a Seal or high speed operator, you will not be disappointed.

 

[Jackson]

Please do list some of what you did. If the membership can be had for $500 and you can take 12 days of training, that sounds like a deal. The travel time and costs may or may not suck up that value. For $5,000 not so much. I assume you have to upgrade and pay more for the advanced classes?

 

[AmericanBob]

I've been out to Front Sight as well. Clay319 and Roscott hauled me out there with them the past couple of years. They're not lying, that place is fantastic! The facilities are unlike anything I've experienced anywhere else. Absolutely first rate. And the instructors could not have been more professional. They were all from very diverse backgrounds with differing types of previous experiences. If you are even considering taking a trip out there, I wouldn't hesitate one bit.

Everyone starts in one of the basic classes (handgun, rifle, shotgun). If you want to move on to the more advanced courses, you first have to DG the basic course. And the base classes do start you right at the beginning. The instructors don't have any idea how skilled you are coming into the class, they just ask that you come with a teachable attitude.

As far as what you can expect to come away from there with, what are you looking for? You will definitely be a better shooter. I don't care what your current skill set is, you will be "tuned up". Just attending one course though isn't going to make you the baddest mofo in the world with a gun though. That's the truth with any training.

 

[Jackson]

Does your membership get guests in free? Or did you have to pay for the classes at full 2k price?

 

[AmericanBob]

The 4 day handgun course is all about defensive shooting concepts from concealed carry. The main focus is getting accurate hits on target, quickly. Accuracy first, then speed. The first two days are all about learning their method and practicing and developing your skills. Day three gets into how to clear doorways, and rooms. They also put you through a shoot house to put those skills to work. The main activities for day 4 are the head to head steel challenge and the skills test. Of course in between everything is a whole lot of practice and shooting, that is why you're there. I fired somewhere just under 800 rounds for the course.

The 4 day rifle course follows a pretty similar pattern as the handgun course. You do get into shooting from different positions in the rifle course though and also longer distance as you'd expect. Also, instead of a shoot house, you go through a shoot canyon that allows you to try making use of varying terrain. Round count was somewhere around 630.

I haven't taken the shotgun course yet so I can't comment on that. Nor any of the more advanced courses as I haven't DG'd a primary yet. But you better believe I'm going to!

 

[Rob377]

zero personal experience here, so a question to ponder...

aren't they the ones stuck on weaver? I guess I could live w/ that so long as they didn't force weaver on students. But if their gun handling techniques are that dated I'd be concerned what other information they are giving is dated...

-rvb

If you don't strike up a perfect weaver stance with a thumbs over grip, you'll be dead on the critical dynamic 2 way range.

 

[AmericanBob]

That's a good question Jackson. I have a lifetime membership so I'm good to go. I don't know about guests though.

 

[rhino]

zero personal experience here, so a question to ponder...

aren't they the ones stuck on weaver? I guess I could live w/ that so long as they didn't force weaver on students. But if their gun handling techniques are that dated I'd be concerned what other information they are giving is dated...

-rvb

Unless they completely changed the curriculum and techniques, they're definitely teaching the Modern Technique as it exists today, which includes some variant of the Weaver as they teach and advocate at Gunsite. When Piazza opened Frontsight, he had Gabe Suarez and Chuck Taylor working with him, although they parted ways not long after that. Gabe has since revised pretty everything he does and teaches, but Chuck Taylor is and always will be the poster child for the Modern Technique.

Given that, while there exist more evolved methods that are more amenable to the efficient and effective use of the handgun for most people, I believe there is nothing inherently wrong with the Modern Technique unless your build simply doesn't allow you to shoot accurately from any version of a Weaver. And, if you're using the Harries Technique (properly) for shooting with a light, a Weaver/Modified Weaver is . . . required.

 

[Clay319]

As far as guests go, just buy a lifetime membership for well under $500 and then they can take as many classes as they want forever. Yes it sounds crazy but that is their program. It seems to be working out well as every time I go back they have added improvement to the facilities.

 

[Jackson]

So where does a person get a membership for well under $500, and how much is that specifically?

 

[bmbutch]

I have a 4-day certificate I picked up for $100 several years ago (5-7), it has no experation date. Just haven't taken time to schedule it, thinking I need to make the time.

 

[Vigilant]

Forever also means until the lawsuits are finished and if they are still in business? At one point they were in receivership, don't know if that holds true today, or where exactly all of their legal troubles are, or may land them?

 

[Clay319]

Memberships can be purchased from members who bought or received additional memberships when they joined. I know that sounds crazy but Frontsight seems to really want as many members as possible. Anyway, these memberships are available at a big discount. Price is usually $250 - 500 depending on the seller. If you are serious I can probably get you in touch with somebody who has one for sale. As a side note, Frontsight does a background check prior to signing you up. If you can't pass a background check you don't need a membership.

 

[Clay319]

Forever means as long as they are open. I had the same reservation when I joined three years ago. They seem to flourishing. And I would look at the cost of the membership as the cost for your first class. Any class after that is essentially free.

 

[Streck-Fu]

I know that sounds crazy but Frontsight seems to really want as many members as possible.

Especially ones that rarely visit.

 

[rhino]

It's very much like gym memberships!

 

[Co Th G]

If you don't strike up a perfect weaver stance with a thumbs over grip, you'll be dead on the critical dynamic 2 way range.

And dead on the streets as well!

 

[Co Th G]

Unless they completely changed the curriculum and techniques, they're definitely teaching the Modern Technique as it exists today, which includes some variant of the Weaver as they teach and advocate at Gunsite. When Piazza opened Frontsight, he had Gabe Suarez and Chuck Taylor working with him, although they parted ways not long after that. Gabe has since revised pretty everything he does and teaches, but Chuck Taylor is and always will be the poster child for the Modern Technique.

Given that, while there exist more evolved methods that are more amenable to the efficient and effective use of the handgun for most people, I believe there is nothing inherently wrong with the Modern Technique unless your build simply doesn't allow you to shoot accurately from any version of a Weaver. And, if you're using the Harries Technique (properly) for shooting with a light, a Weaver/Modified Weaver is . . . required.

Frontsight should switch over to teaching the Turnipseed Technique.

 

[Jackson]

I don't know that I'd use it. Even if the membership was $300, the travel costs would easily be > $1,000 per 4day day trip. That's a lot of coin. Based on the AAR that was posted, it doesn't seem like material I haven't seen locally. I'm still hoping for more details on the course content.

Memberships can be purchased from members who bought or received additional memberships when they joined. I know that sounds crazy but Frontsight seems to really want as many members as possible. Anyway, these memberships are available at a big discount. Price is usually $250 - 500 depending on the seller. If you are serious I can probably get you in touch with somebody who has one for sale. As a side note, Frontsight does a background check prior to signing you up. If you can't pass a background check you don't need a membership.

 

[Phil502]

I'm a member so is my friend and his wife. We all went last summer for the 2 day handgun. My only other official training was Appleseed and NRA Beginners Handgun. I thought Frontsite was very up to par with Appleseed and I think Appleseed is really pretty good to great depending on who's running the range that day.

They start you out slow, no hot range at first, lots of jam clearing drills, got to go in the house and take out wooden plaque intruders opening the doors and windows. Last day had a hot range and timed drills.

The instructers were really good at their jobs, the place was clean, the food was decent. Everything well organized. No problems here. Rented a Glock 9mm, my buddy had a Glock 40 caliber, you could get a 1911 and a Springfield (I think).

We stayed at Wine Ridge RV Park in Pahrump, had a small trailer, very clean, no trouble, cable tv, good air conditioning. Ate at the winery, not cheap but had a real good steak.

Planning on going next spring or fall for the 4 day handgun class, with my friends and my wife too.

Theres stuff closer but I like it there and spend a few days on the strip too.