Front Sight Institute Using Deputy's Death Video For Advertising

[Buckaroo]

it is YOU who have 'missed the point'. the POINT is the officer was poorly trained! frontsight training IS miles ahead of wherever that poor man got his training. as has been previously posted, that same vid is used in multiple other training sessions; so, why not in his too? his page IS a training page.

Please.... Your qualifications to make this assessment are what?

Do you have any knowledge of the background to this officers death?

I suspect that you have neither. The issue is not the video but how it is used by FS. As I said, you have missed the point.

Buckaroo

 

[Buckaroo]

For those who are in a position to make a difference, ignoring his death and not making better products and training to prevent it in the future is what is inexcusable. Every safety product in every industry is improved by and marketed for the prevention of deaths that had occurred in the past.

You just have a beef with Frontsight for reasons you have not yet disclosed.

To use an officers death to create a Frontsight bashing thread is inexcusable behavior.

I have no beef nor any history with FS, nice try. I am simply deeply offended by the actions of FS.

Buckaroo

 

[Fargo]

Please.... Your qualifications to make this assessment are what?

Do you have any knowledge of the background to this officers death?

I suspect that you have neither. The issue is not the video but how it is used by FS. As I said, you have missed the point.

Buckaroo

He and some other posters haven't missed the point, they just appear to have some sort of financial/emotional/mental investment in FS and are unable to consider that just possibly it is unethical to use a deputy's death video for financial gain.

Its kinda like people who buy a gun and then need to validate that purchase by demanding that everyone else on the internet agree that it is the greatest thing since soap on a rope.

Best,


Joe

Joe

 

[Balinor]

I have used that same video but only in a training situation never ever for advertising. There were some mistakes made and can be learned from them.
( I am not judging the Deputy or playing monday morning qb)
The stop the Deputy made could be a stop any officer has faced.
I only know of Front Sight from 2nd hand accounts so i make no case for or against their training but i think their advertising, trying to build on the fear/anger of a Deputies death very disturbing to me. I can see using the video in a closed door training session that I believe has merit.

 

[crazzy]

frontsight is such a terrible outfit. here's a bit of the latest email from dr. piazza:
After 13 years of leading the firearms training industry by training more students than all of other the major schools combined, I still laugh at the crazy rumors, gossip, and misinformation spread by people who have never attended a course at Front Sight.
Well, here are three reports from credible people who just attended our courses.
Enjoy reading from the real experts on Front Sight... our students:
Dear Dr. Piazza,
I have just returned from taking the 4 Day Defensive Handgun course at Front Sight, Feb 5-8, 2010. Though I filled out the evaluation form, I wanted to convey to you my thoughts after a day or so of reflection on my experience.
As the Pastor of Lifepointe Church in Carmel, Indiana I want to first thank you for creating a world-class firearms training facility! I am 100% confident that there is no better facility available to the private citizen in all of the world.
The superior design of the Defensive Handgun course was demonstrated in my class because both novices to handgun shooting like myself as well as trained law enforcement officers equally benefited from the course. I don't know of any training in any subject in which both the inexperienced and the experienced can benefit by taking the same course. Your course design apparently has a self-adjusting element which is amazing to me.
The instruction that I receive on the range was beyond what I could have expected. The professionalism of the instructors, their clear instructions, helpful demonstrations, safety-consciousness, patience with individuals who needed extra attention, and on-time adherence to the training schedule made my experience at Front Sight very rewarding. The Range Master kept students at ease while maintaining positive control over the training environment.
I came away very pleased with how much my shooting skills improved in just four days!
The lectures were delivered well and packed full of necessary information that every handgun owner in America must know but generally does not - I certainly did not know most of it prior to Front Sight training.
I especially appreciated the frank and honest manner in which the use of handguns was discussed.
While your goal is for every law abiding citizen to have skill at arms, it was made obvious that is not Front Sight's goal to train trigger-happy cowboys out looking for a gun-fight. The emphasis on carefully thinking through when my handgun would be used was helpful. The forthright presentation on the likely life-changing personal consequences of defending one's self and family with a firearm was very well presented and quite sobering.
I have already promoted my great experience to several of my friends and will continue to do so. It's hard to keep quiet about such a life-changing experience!
Lastly, I pastor an active church in the mid-west. It's of great concern to me that the crazed and criminal are now targeting houses of worship, shooting to death children, youth, adults and church leadership from the parking lot to the pulpit.
I am grateful that two Front Sight Lifetime Members in my congregation made it possible for me and another church member to attend the Four Day Defensive Handgun Course. Now there are three people in the congregation and one at the pulpit who are skilled at arms. I know that my congregation is much safer today thanks to Front Sight!
Thanks again for your commitment to excellence in firearms training.
All the best,
Pastor Woody Cumbie
Lifepointe Church
Carmel, IN

 

[crazzy]

and a bit more from another highly respectable source:
And this from the Dean of Walsh University, School of Business...
Dr. Piazza,
My son and I returned to Cleveland today after having experienced our first, but not our last, 4 Day Defensive Handgun Training course at Front Sight. I want to share my thoughts with you regarding the high quality of your professional staff.
All of our Front Sight instructors were knowledgeable, committed, disciplined and interested in our progress and learning.
The classroom lectures we attended were phenomenal!
As someone who has been teaching, though not always to my aspirations, for almost 15 years, and who has been in business for almost 50 years, I truly admire great and even good teaching. Your classroom presenter is better than "good" as a teacher and his techniques border on greatness.
He knew his subject; there was something for him to teach. However, most important, certainly to me, was that he knew his students and made a very sound connection with those students attending his lectures.
Teaching is not simple nor is it easy. Students can identify and "tag" a poor teacher in a heartbeat. The lack of sincerity in addressing a subject is the first and most significant of these failings. At the same time students can identify teachers who care about their students' knowledge development.
My son and I heard many comments, good ones. Our personal experiences aligned with the comments we heard from others.
There were many things about the Front Sight experience that I did not expect and all were positive.
Being in the presence of truly effective teachers was only one of those surprises.
Dr. Ronald G. Fountain
Dean, School of Business
Walsh University, North Canton, Ohio

 

[crazzy]

and the 3rd one of the day from another respectable person:
And here is another from an Emergency Room Physician...
Dr. Piazza,
I just finished my first course (4 Day Defensive Handgun) at Front Sight.
Although I did fill out the critique, my handwriting is not the best and I would like to expand on what I wrote.
I have been shooting for 10 years and have had very little formal instruction -- only 2 one day courses locally. It was pretty obvious to me that was not enough.
Your hand gun course improved my shooting, and more importantly my safety habits beyond my wildest expectations.
As an emergency physician I know that your habits save you when you are stressed or tired. I now have started to build good habits which will hopefully save me when I am stressed.
I get threatened by patients several times a year. I am well protected in the emergency department, but outside of that in a smaller community I am not hard to find. Carrying a pistol and avoiding bad situations is my only protection outside the hospital. The police are stretched thin, and help is usually at least 10-15 minutes away. When I am working on our property outside town, help is at best 45-60 minutes away.
Your staff is incredible. They are "drill sergeants" with a heart. I mean this in a good way. Criticism was delivered in a very straight forward manner that was not in the least harsh or offensive. Praise was given when due, and also encouragement when needed. The instructors on the range were all very approachable when I had questions. I was particularly impressed that the staff on the range took extra time with two of the shooters that were slower to learn than the others. No one was "left in the dust", yet the remainder of the class was allowed to move on. This is something you don't see often in any course teaching a skill to a group of people.
All of the staff were tough when they needed to correct safety infractions, which I really appreciated. The consistency of instruction was excellent -- no conflicting directions or instruction.
I would highly recommend anyone who handles a handgun to take the 4 Day Defensive Handgun course. Most of the patients I take care of with gunshot wounds incurred the injury through their own stupidity/carelessness or that of someone else. Taking this course, and adhering to its tenets would have prevented most of the severe injuries or deaths that I have seen over the last 25 years.
I hope to be able to come back for the 2 day handgun skill builder and 4 day rifle course in May- work schedule permitting.
You are more than welcome to use any of the comments that I have made in your marketing.
Thanks for a great weekend.
Dr. Susan Whitaker Hill

 

[Fargo]

frontsight is such a terrible outfit. here's a bit of the latest email from dr. piazza:
After 13 years of leading the firearms training industry by training more students than all of other the major schools combined, I still laugh at the crazy rumors, gossip, and misinformation spread by people who have never attended a course at Front Sight.
Well, here are three reports from credible people who just attended our courses.

Its not the quality of training that is at issue, it is the ethics of using a deputy's death video to promote yourself.

 

[crazzy]

He and some other posters haven't missed the point, they just appear to have some sort of financial/emotional/mental investment in FS ...
Best,


Joe

Joe

joe, the only 'investment' which i have in FS is the best 4 days of my life that i ever spent w/ a firearm!
peace,
crazzy

 

[crazzy]

Its not the quality of training that is at issue, it is the ethics of using a deputy's death video to promote yourself.

and some of see it as a legitimate example of WHY many, including LEs need more and better training - which he happens to have available. i think it is time we simply agree to disagree. people will always see things from differing prospectives. hell, many folks STILL think bho is a wonderful president. lol.
peace, crazzy

 

[crazzy]

there are a few here who object to FS post of the vid. there are many at this URL who support it [not just a few of us who refuse to be shut down by rhetoric]. check it out for yourself: Ignatius Piazza: Stop Screaming, Start Shooting…

peace, crazzy

 

[St Elias]

I have see this and other disturbing videos in training, but they have no place in advertising for Front Sight.

 

[E5RANGER375]

for advertising.... NO

for training .... deffinately!

if this video has saved one life from it waking someone up to reality then the officer is still protecting and serving his community and many others. and his memory will always live on! Rest in Peace Officer.

 

[theturtle06]

That video is just...bad. I've watched some pretty gruesome videos but that one is really, really sad.

and some of see it as a legitimate example of WHY many, including LEs need more and better training - which he happens to have available. i think it is time we simply agree to disagree. people will always see things from differing prospectives. hell, many folks STILL think bho is a wonderful president. lol.
peace, crazzy

As others said - and I think everyone in this thread can agree on this - the officer in the video did not act fast enough. Again, the issue at hand is not the quality of FS's training, but rather the fact that they are objectifying this video. If someone posted a video of a friend or family member's death, someone that was dear to you, and used the VIDEO ITSELF to draw people in and profit off it, how would you feel? It is from that where the people objecting to this video draw their criticism. I don't believe anyone is disagreeing with what you are saying. I sure as hell agree with you - this video should be used to help train LEOs on when to use deadly force. But when a company objectifies this mans death by (as another in this thread said) "...scaring people into their classes..." and in turn profiting directly off the video that is messed up.

 

[crazzy]

frontsight is NOT a 'bad guy'!

how about this: [and, for the record, i'm taking the 3 women closest to me [wife, daughter, and sis-in-law] back for another 4 day defensive handgun course b/c this is the REAL DEAL!]

Having trouble viewing this email? Click here to view the website version.​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Dr. Ignatius Piazza[/FONT] Friday, March 5, 2010
Dear Lawrence Reiher,
Evidently some whining handwringers saw customers of Starbucks, Peet's Coffee and California Pizza Kitchen openly carrying handguns and alerted the two organizations that violent criminals love most--Handgun Control Inc. and the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence--to do something about it.
You know the drill... Sarah Brady types parade a bunch of kids around, pull exaggerated and unrelated gun death statistics out of thin air and claim if guns are allowed in coffee shops people will start killing each other over who was in line first for a cup of java!
These unenlightened gun-ban advocates do nothing other than create more "disarmed victim zones" for criminals and terrorists to gleefully attack without resistance.
Well, Pete's Coffee and the California Pizza Kitchen refused to recognize local, state, federal and historical statistics that prove arming citizens actually deters violent crime. Instead, they were suckered into banning guns in their establishments. Too bad for them. I'm sure millions of gun owners have already found safer places to drink coffee and eat pizza.
Starbucks on the other hand, made a rational, logical and well researched decision to allow guns in their establishments. As a result, I'm sure Starbucks will see a significant increase in their business and I am giving every employee of Starbucks a nice bonus in anticipation of their increased work load!
That's right.
Watch the two, news videos below that will bring you up to speed on why Starbucks is now THE place to buy your coffee and then see the bonus I have for every Starbucks' employee:

Again, congratulations to the Starbucks organization for making the wise and rational decision to uphold law abiding citizens' right to carry a firearm. The country is truly safer when law abiding citizens are armed in public places.
To thank the Starbuck's organization for setting a stellar example of proper corporate policy, I will provide a $2,000 bonus to every Starbucks' employee in the form of a Front Sight Four Day Defensive Handgun Course.
All a Starbuck's employee has to do is select a Four Day Defensive Handgun Course date in 2010 from our website course schedule at Gun training | Firearms Training and complete the Course Application. (We run the courses almost every weekend except during July and August.) After completing the Course Application, attach a copy of a current Starbucks paystub to the application instead of the $2,000 course fee and mail the completed application so we receive it at least two weeks before the course date.
We will then place you in the course and e-mail your course confirmation materials.
I look forward to training the entire Starbucks organization to a level of skill with a handgun that exceeds law enforcement and military standards. (Then Starbucks really could change their logo to an armed Mermaid!)
And if you are not a Starbucks employee, don't despair. You can receive an amazing opportunity when you take advantage of my Greatest Course, Gun, and CCW Permit Offer in the firearms training industry. You too will receive training that exceeds law enforcement and military standards without any boot camp mentality or drill instructor attitudes and get a Springfield Armory XD Pistol in the caliber of your choice free of charge!
See this link: https://www.frontsight.com/free-gun.asp
I post a different article on this blog each Monday so I look forward to your visit every week.
If you have an interesting photo, story or tip about a relevant topic of interest to gun ownership, firearms training or Second Amendment issues, please feel free to send it to me at:
info@frontsight.com or
Ignatius@frontsight.com
If you don't yet have a gun, then get a Springfield Armory XD Pistol at no charge when you take advantage of the Greatest Course, Gun, and CCW Permit Offer in the firearms training industry see this link: https://www.frontsight.com/free-gun.asp
See you next week.
Sincerely,
Dr. Ignatius Piazza
Founder and Director
Front Sight Firearms Training Institute
Gun training | Firearms Training
info@frontsight.com
1.800.987.7719

 

[sjstill]

He's trained more folks than Gunsite?? Wow.

So, he's a Chiropractor. Not too much wrong with that, I suppose.

What are his creds, though? What training has he taken, and where? Or is he just an admin weenie, hiring the talent that he doesn't possess? I read his Wiki page, and it read like an ad.

Seriously, what is this guy's background?

If this is the "Best training you've ever had", then you've sold yourself short.

But, I guess any place that'll teach you to shoot faster and more accurately that a SWAT cop or Navy SeAL in just 4 days has gotta be legit. Hell, those guys waste years learning how to do their jobs. Think of all the money the .gov would save sending the troops to Front Sight.

 

[Steve MI]

So OK crazzy whom else have you trained with? to make the comparison to?

 

[Glock Lover]

Him using this video to promote his business is disgusting to me. but that's just me. I can see the family wanting it used to help people with training not promote your business. This guy is an idiot. Wondering how I really feel about it?

 

[E5RANGER375]

He's trained more folks than Gunsite?? Wow.

So, he's a Chiropractor. Not too much wrong with that, I suppose.

What are his creds, though? What training has he taken, and where? Or is he just an admin weenie, hiring the talent that he doesn't possess? I read his Wiki page, and it read like an ad.

Seriously, what is this guy's background?

If this is the "Best training you've ever had", then you've sold yourself short.

But, I guess any place that'll teach you to shoot faster and more accurately that a SWAT cop or Navy SeAL in just 4 days has gotta be legit. Hell, those guys waste years learning how to do their jobs. Think of all the money the .gov would save sending the troops to Front Sight.

I love your comment it was great. when i saw that ad that tells people they will shoot better than a navy seal, i about fell out of my chair. The "shoot better than SWAT" ok i can believe that one. but a navy seal, WAHAHAHAHA. in their dreams.

well i have first hand knowledge of their training, i got puled along with a budy of mine who bought some package of theirs that allowed him to bring a friend. I do have to say (from a Ranger prospective) i was impressed with the knowledge of their instructors. but almost all of them are former military. the place is huge and fun, its not that expenssive for what they offer, and most people will walk away with more of a respect for guns and better shooting ability if they listen. its a very one on one invironment which is good, and they have more advanced classes. i imagine if you spent enough money and time there then yeah maybe you could be very profficient in navy seal tactics, but you'll never be a Navy Seal, or a Ranger, or SF. theres a lot more that goes into a proffession than just shooting. if you dont have the rest of the training or the mental fortitude and minset then you wont be crap.

all that being said. I think frontsights marketting techniques are very successfull. why??? because they apeal to armchair commandos and people with money who think they can buy anything. those of us who shooting is a way of life or a lifestyle choice understand that its all just a marketing ploy for suckers. but i do have to say I think they have good training if you go with an open mind.

 

[theturtle06]

[snip]

Did you read my post? Or any of the replies directed at your posts? No one is disputing the quality of their training - I am sure it is good training (I however find it highly unlikely that they can train the average person to be a better shooter than a SEAL). We are objecting to their objectification of the death of this officer. I have no way to make it any more clear than that. If you don't understand that after this post, well... what to tell you.