For what it's worth. My experience with ObamaCare

[traderdan]

The system is not exactly socialist, in that the service industry is still in private hands. You are being forced to purchase private products, and every aspect of the private industry is heavily government controlled. That makes it more accurately a fascist system.

This will not last...single payer is on the way.

 

[Rhoadmar]

Not saying Obamacare or socialism or anything else is good or bad. BUT not everyone is a moocher. Some are doing the best they can to help themselves.

I'll say it. Obamacare and socialism are bad, evil, repugnant, oppressive, intrusive....... I could go all day.

 

[ATOMonkey]

WOW !!...I mostly agree with you!.... Communism/Marxism would not be bad either, (in fact is a great idea, on paper) were we able to eliminate human greed, and avarice. Those at the top of the heap always exploit those under.

WTF are you talking about? So, you're ok with only getting what you "need" no matter how hard you work?

 

[rambone]

Communism/Marxism would not be bad either, (in fact is a great idea, on paper) were we able to eliminate human greed, and avarice. Those at the top of the heap always exploit those under.

Is owning property an act of greed? I don't think these systems sound good on paper or otherwise.

edit: Sorry for the tangent.

 

[snorko]

Question: are the exchanges the only source of insurance for those who don't have coverage through employers or other group plans? Is it not possible to seek a plan directly from an insurance provider anymore?

Yes, an individual can still apply directly to an insurance provider. I have always purchased my own insurance; I do not qualify for any group plans. In the mid 1990's I was diagnosed with severe sleep apnea. This locked me into my insurance because no company would underwrite a pan with that pre-existing condition. This was particularly frustrating as, after purchasing the c-pap machine, my medical costs were less than $100 per year on average. But, again, no one would write me a new policy. The plan I was in closed to new applicants and thus the pool became static. this caused premiums to increase significantly and frequently. I pay a total of just over $800 per month for my plan.

Since the new law restricts companies from excluding folks for pre-existing conditions, I can now shop for insurance. The policies I am looking at with similar coverage will cost 50% to 60% less.

So like the folks that got great deals on Jewish owned real estate ion 1930's Germany, I grudgingly benefit.

 

[88GT]

I'm not sure. Truthfully, since, other than the skyrocketing costs, I've still got our insurance through my employer, I really haven't shopped around.



That would be sad if true. However, just because folks have availed themselves of various social-engineering-tax-incentives doesn't mean they're in favor of wealth redistribution. Way too many may not realize that's what they're doing. Having said that, I will take advantage of every tax credit/incentive I can to reduce my tax burden and I would imagine a very large majority of wealth-redistribution-aschewing conservatives and libertarians do too.

I'm willing to concede that there are some versions of wealth redistribution that exist as the default and require an active choice to avoid/opt-out. Most of these are tax code issues when filing income taxes. But wealth redistribution that requires an active choice to participate in it (i.e., signing up for a program)? Mooching for sure. I can't say I'm absolutely mooch-free (not sure what's hidden in the taxes), but I can say with a fair degree of certainty that we do not benefit directly from another taxpayer's earnings. Not even for the EIC.

I despise the system. It IS socialism. However, I'm not so naive to not believe it's going to help people.

...the problem is, these people should be "helping" themselves.

(And FYI, I don't think all socialism is bad)

What socialism is good?

 

[traderdan]

WTF are you talking about? So, you're ok with only getting what you "need" no matter how hard you work?

No...I would be perfectly happy with receiving the same amount as everyone else, who worked as hard as I did..IF there were a way to make that possible....without the use of force! These utopian ideas are TOTALLY illogical, as long as humans are humans..

 

[traderdan]

Is owning property an act of greed? I don't think these systems sound good on paper or otherwise.

edit: Sorry for the tangent.

You do not "own" property anyhow...You are here for only a short time.

 

[ATOMonkey]

No...I would be perfectly happy with receiving the same amount as everyone else, who worked as hard as I did..IF there were a way to make that possible....without the use of force! These utopian ideas are TOTALLY illogical, as long as humans are humans..

No, they're illogical because different jobs are worth more than others.

 

[N8RV]

I like the term "Cadillac Plan" as used in this discussion. As I see it, THAT is exactly the crux of this issue.

Let's use transportation as an analogy. I haven't heard anyone approach it this way, but it pops into my head whenever someone uses the term "Cadillac Plan."

We have a bunch of people in this country -- several million, but still a minority -- who have no transportation. They can't get jobs because they can't drive to work. So it is decided that, in the interest of "fairness," the government should supply all of these unfortunates with transportation. After all, so many in this country are blessed with multiple vehicles. We need to provide the poorest among us with cars.

Therefore, it is decreed that everyone gets a Cadillac. Rich or poor, black or white, legal or illegal -- everybody gets a brand-spankin'-new Cadillac! Hooray!

But wait ...

Joe the Plumber says, "I don't want a Cadillac. I'm a plumber. I need my truck!"

Old McDonald says, "I don't want no Cadillac. I'm a farmer. I need my trucks to haul my grain to market!"

Suzanne, a successful attorney, says, "I'd never drive a Cadillac. I love my BMW!"

Bob, a factory worker, says, "I don't need a Caddy. I like my Ford. It gets me to work, it always starts, insurance is cheap and it's good on gas."

Tough. EVERYBODY gets a Caddilac, like it or not.

Several have posted that they had the plan that fit their needs and no more. I did. I didn't have maternity coverage (don't need it) or dental coverage (I'm a dentist) or other coverage that I didn't want or need. Major medical, high deductible and low premiums. It fit my needs quite well.

But now I can't have that because it isn't a "Cadillac." I can choose a different color -- bronze, silver or gold -- but it still has to be a Cadillac. I can't have an F-150 or a Toyota hybrid. It has to be a Cadillac, just like everyone else.

I'm sure somebody will point out the flaws in my analogy, and that's OK. It works for me.

 

[88GT]

No, they're illogical because different jobs are worth more than others.

Well, actually it's illogical because distribution of wealth isn't determined just by one's abilities or the work he does. "From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs." The system is rigged so that those who CAN work do so not for themselves but for those who can't/won't.

 

[traderdan]

The thing that disturbs me the most about this "Healthcare reform" is that it begins to encroach upon the ability that we have to "own" ourselves! As in our own bodies, those of our family. YOU WILL SEE...mandatory vaccinations, .Gov rationing of medical treatment, ect,ect..if we keep going down this road.

 

[88GT]

I like the term "Cadillac Plan" as used in this discussion. As I see it, THAT is exactly the crux of this issue.

Let's use transportation as an analogy. I haven't heard anyone approach it this way, but it pops into my head whenever someone uses the term "Cadillac Plan."

We have a bunch of people in this country -- several million, but still a minority -- who have no transportation. They can't get jobs because they can't drive to work. So it is decided that, in the interest of "fairness," the government should supply all of these unfortunates with transportation. After all, so many in this country are blessed with multiple vehicles. We need to provide the poorest among us with cars.

Therefore, it is decreed that everyone gets a Cadillac. Rich or poor, black or white, legal or illegal -- everybody gets a brand-spankin'-new Cadillac! Hooray!

But wait ...

Joe the Plumber says, "I don't want a Cadillac. I'm a plumber. I need my truck!"

Old McDonald says, "I don't want no Cadillac. I'm a farmer. I need my trucks to haul my grain to market!"

Suzanne, a successful attorney, says, "I'd never drive a Cadillac. I love my BMW!"

Bob, a factory worker, says, "I don't need a Caddy. I like my Ford. It gets me to work, it always starts, insurance is cheap and it's good on gas."

Tough. EVERYBODY gets a Caddilac, like it or not.

Several have posted that they had the plan that fit their needs and no more. I did. I didn't have maternity coverage (don't need it) or dental coverage (I'm a dentist) or other coverage that I didn't want or need. Major medical, high deductible and low premiums. It fit my needs quite well.

But now I can't have that because it isn't a "Cadillac." I can choose a different color -- bronze, silver or gold -- but it still has to be a Cadillac. I can't have an F-150 or a Toyota hybrid. It has to be a Cadillac, just like everyone else.

I'm sure somebody will point out the flaws in my analogy, and that's OK. It works for me.

That's a pretty good analogy in terms of available product.

 

[N8RV]

That's a pretty good analogy in terms of available product.

Thanks.

 

[traderdan]

No, they're illogical because different jobs are worth more than others.

By the term "work as hard" I am including all that one must do to be able to have a higher paying job. A doctor SHOULD make much more than I do...His whole life has been spent working toward his goals...while I have mostly floated around, doing whatever I wanted.

 

[traderdan]

Thanks.

Yep...and you are gonna help buy everybody a Cadillac, at gunpoint! Everybody's Cadillac will only run on certain days...and never go faster than 30 mph.

 

[olhorseman]

I wonder how many people would object to this law if instead of Obamacare it was referred to as "The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act."

Before voicing strong opinions that are regurgitated from news pundits, perhaps everyone should read the law at http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/pdf/affordablecareact.pdf

It's only a little over 2,400 pages, so take your time.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Yep...and you are gonna help buy everybody a Cadillac, at gunpoint! Everybody's Cadillac will only run on certain days...and never go faster than 30 mph.

Don't forget the mandatory car insurance too

 

[Rhoadmar]

I wonder how many people would object to this law if instead of Obamacare it was referred to as "The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act."

Before voicing strong opinions that are regurgitated from news pundits, perhaps everyone should read the law at http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/pdf/affordablecareact.pdf

It's only a little over 2,400 pages, so take your time.

I didn't need to read it. When it forces me to purchase a product because I exist as a U.S. citizen I immediately hated it.

 

[olhorseman]

I didn't need to read it. When it forces me to purchase a product because I exist as a U.S. citizen I immediately hated it.

Force? No where in the law is there a mention of "force". What "force"? Simply, don't participate.