FN FiveseveN, again.

[BehindBlueI's]

was it IIIA? there are vids on youtube that show it penetrating.

Level II. Standard concealable soft body armor. It was "expired" and used to demonstrate that ballistic protection doesn't disappear after the warranty does.

 

[HoughMade]

Well, I did a little looking at muzzle energies. Yes, I know it doesn't tell the whole story, but it's an objective place to start.

Sure, the 5.7x28 can kill people. It's done it, there's no doubt. However, in the personal protection arena, to a certain extent, we want to play the percentages. We ask ourselves the question: "what can provide me with a reasonable chance to stop an attack, that I can shoot well and (possibly) conceal?" Between the 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP, studies indicate that with proper shot placement and a well designed cartridge (velocity and bullet), you are well served.

Now, by no means did I check every load, but I looked at 3 or 4 well-regarded self-defense cartridges in each caliber. A 9mm produced from around 380 to 450 ft/lbs. of muzzle energy. A .40 S&W, 380 to 485 ft/lbs. A .45 ACP, 400 to 550 ft/lbs. At the higher end of all of those, these are some pretty hot loads.

The .380 can be effective and possibly what you gain with concealability makes up for a few percentage points in "attack stopping". The muzzle energy is closer to 180 to, possibly, 280 ft/lbs.

What about the 5.7x28? Particularly in the FN Five Seven....'cause this round gives up energy to the short barrel. In the P90 and PS90, it's quite a bit faster. The SS190 produces 315 ft/lbs, the SS192 (HP) 275 ft/lbs. The SS197 produces 250 ft./lbs. Add on top of this that to date, bullet manufacturers have not produced the variety of reliably expanding bullets that are available for the more common handgun calibers.

Wowzers....the lowly 9mm (my personal choice) makes more energy with a larger diameter bullet and has numerous very well designed bullets available that will reliably dump that energy in a man-sized target. The .40 S&W and .45 ACP will dump more energy.

So- in the sub guns or carbine, the 5.7x28 is probably real nifty as a stopper. In a handgun-sized package, there appear to me many better choices, but I'm sure it would work with properly placed shots (as would almost anything).

 

[The Keymaster]

One thing to keep in mind as far as bullets go, the 5.7 x 28 uses the same bullet diameter as the .223. That being said, there are limits to bullet weights that can be used, but there is a large variety available that will provide surprisingly good results.

A person doing extensive research, and using a chronograph can get excellent results with off the shelf bullets up to 50gr.

Virtually everything that has been published regarding this caliber has been done with off the shelf ammunition produced by FN. It is a known fact that the factory rounds are anemic, and have gotten worse as time had gone on.

It's a fun gun to shoot with factory ammo, but those that take the caliber seriously will want to reload it. Sure it is slightly more difficult to work with, but with proper equipment and attention to detail the results can be amazing.

 

[Hookeye]

Nope, just 3. Tissue damage = blood loss. You'll bleed out before dying of broken bones.

You said incapacitate. Not kill.

People get shot, give up the fight (but not the ghost) all the time.

 

[tdoom15]

You said incapacitate. Not kill.

People get shot, give up the fight (but not the ghost) all the time.

People can still fight with broken bones, if they stop, It is because they choose to. That is a psychological stop. To shoot someone enough to break enough bones for them to physically have to stop what they are doing would be to kill them by blood loss first.

And you can't compare 5.56 and 5.7 bc the velocity and bullet designs are so different.

This thread has gone to ***t, it should be locked. Bottom line is that more qualified people than any of us have recommended against it due to its poor stopping power and the fact that it is impractical.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

id buy one, either a five seven or a p90, in a heartbeat if they werent so damn expensive. HMMMM.. a glock and a AR for the price of one pistol that eats ammo that costs almost a buck a round.. HMMMM

Nope. $.45 per round for Hornady components. Equivelant price to 45acp. A 2 second google search would have shown you this

The 5.7 chief problem, like anything new in the gun community, is that people who have never even held one parrot falsehoods they read from other missinformed internet posters.

I have EDCed the 5.7 for over a year now. It is a very capable gun with some practical benifits for the CCW holder.

20 rounds of accurate centerfire in a very reliable, corosion resistant gun that weighs loaded what a Glock weighs empty... yea, i cant imagine why you would ever want to carry one.

Bottom line is that more qualified people than any of us have recommended against it due to its poor stopping power and the fact that it is impractical.

Who exactly?

 

[CPT Nervous]

The Five-seveN was used in the Ft Hood shooting. Most people who were shot didn't even realize it until they saw the blood. It is not a capable stopper. It may kill, but that isn't your goal in self defense.

AIDs will eventually kill you. That doesn't make it a good weapon for SD.

It's a good thing the Five-seveN holds so many rounds. You'll probably need most of them.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

There are a lot of people that dont realize they have suffered trauma at the time - be that a gunshot, stabbing, car crash, or wood shop accident. This happens frequently in crowd scenarios.

Please show evidence showing the placement of these shots - it is compleatly reasonable not to notice a glancing wound when everyone is screaming, shoving you, steping on each other, and triping over things regardles of what kind of bullet was used.

A poor hit is a poor hit with any weapon. What factual evidence leads you to think that a CNS or vital organ hit would be any less effective with a 5.7 than anything else?

And this is ignoring the way you used the13 killed and 29 wounded at fort hood to try and proove the 5.7 is NOT effective....

 

[Titanium Man]

It is what it is. I've carried mine all the way through hunting season for personal protection, just to see how convenient it would be, and it is. It's very, very light, to the point I dont even know I have it on. Ammo at PSS is $24.95, which is as good as it gets, but I'm still waiting on a wholesale order of 20+ boxes for $19. It's allocated, so it's a pain to get a large amount. I know my wife won't like it when I pull in a order of 50 boxes ALL for myself.

 

[cundiff5535]

I have both... love them! I keep my Ps90 as a HD gun. Whats not to like about 50 round mags, a light, and red dot.

As for the 5.7... Anytime I show this off, people hop around like I am carrying a freakin cannon!

As for Ammo... when I get it, I stock up 2000-5000 rounds at a time... I will admit, its not like a 9mm ,45acp, or 223... you local Wal-Mart doesnt have this just sitting around.

With that said, I really love both my PS and 5.7!

 

[randygun]

have 5 7 great reloading bulletts now