Florida man kills door-to-door salesman

[GodFearinGunTotin]

You notice how in all these cases theres the people that live close or know the person, and they say oh yeah he was crazy.....WHY NOT SPEAK UP BEFOREHAND!

This brings up a good point...

Libertarians, are we supposed to mind our own business? Or if somebody had "ratted" this guy out, maybe a salesman would still be alive.

 

[Mackey]

You notice how in all these cases theres the people that live close or know the person, and they say oh yeah he was crazy.....WHY NOT SPEAK UP BEFOREHAND!

I see what your saying. No offense intended but I have a different take on this.

This is the same sort of reasoning people were using regarding the Colorado shooter, James Holmes.

The thing is, this world of our is full of nut jobs. It's not against the law to be weird, wacko or strange. Also, most crazies don't go out an massacre people. The idea that somehow turning in a crazy person to the authorities will stop these horrors, is akin to believing that banning guns will stop the same.

 

[Martin Draco]

My no trespassing and no soliciting signs haven't been as effective as I'd hoped at my house. I get the door-to-door God sales people once a week. Last week it was a couple young men that were dressed like Best Buy's Geek Squad, carrying backpacks and a book. Since they had the book I assumed they could read the signs.

I think I'll print this story out, laminate it, and hang it above the doorbell button. Hopefully it does the trick!

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

My no trespassing and no soliciting signs haven't been as effective as I'd hoped at my house. I get the door-to-door God sales people once a week. Last week it was a couple young men that were dressed like Best Buy's Geek Squad, carrying backpacks and a book. Since they had the book I assumed they could read the signs.

I think I'll print this story out, laminate it, and hang it above the doorbell button. Hopefully it does the trick!

You might not want to threaten deadly force by advertising by implication on your front door.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

This brings up a good point...

Libertarians, are we supposed to mind our own business? Or if somebody had "ratted" this guy out, maybe a salesman would still be alive.

No need to "rat him out" as being threatening & off. If you own property nearby, feel free to post a warning sign for others or buy the guy breakfast & see if you can't talk him down from the ledge. If you boil libertarianism down to it's basic core logic, there shouldn't be anyone to "rat him out" to...

 

[cobber]

There's always the options of either putting up a sign to warn about him or choosing to come along side & helping him to shed some of the crazy. Since neither happened, this is going to be more fuel to the gun-grabber fire & a man is dead. Instead of people taking responsibility for their neighbors & neighborhoods, we'll just have increased calls for federal or global intervention.

Re having a chat with said neighbor, the video seemed to indicate none of his neighbors were that comfortable with him, but he probably did not manifest craziness sufficient for court-ordered commitment. Or for a court to order his guns removed.

I don't know about this 'taking responsibility for the neighborhood' idea. Lots of INGOers get indignant when we suggest neighbors should mow their lawns. Addressing a neighbor's mental stability would seem a bit more taboo.

If they had taken responsibility, i.e., walked up to his door for a chat, chances are he would have whacked them for trespassing. He needed to move to a cabin somewhere in Idaho if he was that disturbed by people going to his door, walking by, etc.

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Re having a chat with said neighbor, the video seemed to indicate none of his neighbors were that comfortable with him, but he probably did not manifest craziness sufficient for court-ordered commitment. Or for a court to order his guns removed.

I don't know about this 'taking responsibility for the neighborhood' idea. Lots of INGOers get indignant when we suggest neighbors should mow their lawns. Addressing a neighbor's mental stability would seem a bit more taboo.

If they had taken responsibility, i.e., walked up to his door for a chat, chances are he would have whacked them for trespassing. He needed to move to a cabin somewhere in Idaho if he was that disturbed by people going to his door, walking by, etc.

Yeah, I suppose it would be impossible to strike up a chat while he's out doing yard work, washing his truck, or coming to & fro (while staying in the street & being non-threatening...). Yep...better just sit inside & watch America Thinks You're Dancing with the Bachelor's Kitchen Idol.

 

[FatsMcKay]

typical prius owner

 

[cobber]

Yeah, I suppose it would be impossible to strike up a chat while he's out doing yard work, washing his truck, or coming to & fro (while staying in the street & being non-threatening...). Yep...better just sit inside & watch America Thinks You're Dancing with the Bachelor's Kitchen Idol.

So it's the neighbors' fault? It takes a village to deal with a crazy guy? Okay...

I suppose the lady who he followed while she was walking her dog could have struck up a conversation with him.

Her bad.

More information, apparently a jury cut him a break for similar behavior in 2005.

http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/26...-door-to-door-salesman-described-as-time-bomb

 

[Paco Bedejo]

So it's the neighbors' fault? It takes a village to deal with a crazy guy? Okay...

I suppose the lady who he followed while she was walking her dog could have struck up a conversation with him.

Her bad.

More information, apparently a jury cut him a break for similar behavior in 2005.

Cape Coral shooting suspect, Kenneth Roop, once pulled gun on meter reader, former prosecutor says | wtsp.com

No, it's not the neighbors' faults. I was responding to the inevitable calls for further gun control at the Federal or global level. His decision to shoot the guy isn't anyone's fault other than his...but people will claim it's the fault of federal legislators who "allow people to have access to assault weapons" or some bull.

I was just offering that instead of our society relying upon Washington leeches to settle our problems, perhaps we could handle the problems in our communities by ourselves. If you want to be a recluse & not get involved in the lives of those around you, prepare for an even more powerful central government. You know...this wouldn't have been an issue had his TV been able to make sure he did his jumping jacks every morning

 

[The Glockantuan]

No, it's not the neighbors' faults. I was responding to the inevitable calls for further gun control at the Federal or global level. His decision to shoot the guy isn't anyone's fault other than his...but people will claim it's the fault of federal legislators who "allow people to have access to assault weapons" or some bull.

I was just offering that instead of our society relying upon Washington leeches to settle our problems, perhaps we could handle the problems in our communities by ourselves. If you want to be a recluse & not get involved in the lives of those around you, prepare for an even more powerful central government. You know...this wouldn't have been an issue had his TV been able to make sure he did his jumping jacks every morning

Hear, hear!

 

[Glock19]

I see what your saying. No offense intended but I have a different take on this.

This is the same sort of reasoning people were using regarding the Colorado shooter, James Holmes.

The thing is, this world of our is full of nut jobs. It's not against the law to be weird, wacko or strange. Also, most crazies don't go out an massacre people. The idea that somehow turning in a crazy person to the authorities will stop these horrors, is akin to believing that banning guns will stop the same.

Well when one of the first things the Colorado shooters mom says is, oh yeah that sounds like my son...... thats the part that gets me...

 

[hornadylnl]

Did his area have a history of break ins? We've discussed that door to door sales is a good mo for would be thieves to case neighborhoods. Was the guy suspicious? Was he reaching for his pockets? Did he make furtive movements?

 

[ghunter]

He sounds like another bitter loser who thinks he's a big man with his gun. Prison will feed him some humble pie.

This just ticks me off to no end when some punk gives good gun owners a bad name.

 

[cobber]

I was just offering that instead of our society relying upon Washington leeches to settle our problems, perhaps we could handle the problems in our communities by ourselves. If you want to be a recluse & not get involved in the lives of those around you, prepare for an even more powerful central government. You know...this wouldn't have been an issue had his TV been able to make sure he did his jumping jacks every morning

Who said anything about relying on the feds? Since he used a Glock, I don't foresee any calls for banning assault weapons based on this incident. And he only fired two shots, so even a 10 rd. magazine wouldn't have made a difference.

"Getting more involved" in our neighbors' lives sounds (potentially) ominous to me. Frankly I'm not interested in getting any more involved with my neighbors than I have to be, and I don't particularly want to be harmonized to their way of thinking. Sounds pretty collectivist to me.

Under your policy of reaching out to others, what you do with a violent neighbor, or a mentally-ill individual? Are you qualified to deal with those kinds of people? Do you think neighbors having a word with Gacy or Dahmer would have prevented their subsequent acts?

Other than trying to get a court to confiscate his guns, or have him committed to a mental institution, I don't see what his neighbors could have done to make the community safer (that being a relative concept).

 

[Paco Bedejo]

Who said anything about relying on the feds? Since he used a Glock, I don't foresee any calls for banning assault weapons based on this incident. And he only fired two shots, so even a 10 rd. magazine wouldn't have made a difference.

I was being a bit hyperbolic...but there is a real chance that the antis could use this case to fuel a drive for more stringent regulations of who can purchase and/or carry guns...or even use it as justification to grab all guns.

"Getting more involved" in our neighbors' lives sounds (potentially) ominous to me. Frankly I'm not interested in getting any more involved with my neighbors than I have to be, and I don't particularly want to be harmonized to their way of thinking. Sounds pretty collectivist to me.

Well, if you're not at least a little voluntarily-collectivist in your neighborhood & family, then you're kinda an a**hole IMO... Like I said earlier...if the small community doesn't fix its issues, there are a whole bunch of overreaching nannies who would love to do it for us.

Under your policy of reaching out to others, what you do with a violent neighbor, or a mentally-ill individual? Are you qualified to deal with those kinds of people? Do you think neighbors having a word with Gacy or Dahmer would have prevented their subsequent acts?

If they're violent, we have plenty of methods on the books already. If they merely appear potentially violent, then having some good-natured chats with them might just remedy the situation. If they're mentally-ill & own firearms, then I'd still have a talk with them & any of their friends/family. If they're all alone & unresponsive to discussions...then we do have rules on the books to assist us.

Other than trying to get a court to confiscate his guns, or have him committed to a mental institution, I don't see what his neighbors could have done to make the community safer (that being a relative concept).

Like I said, they could have built a relationship with him and/or notified the community about his instability (signs, petitions, commercials). Heck, the city could have came & painted "dangerous area, don't solicit" on the road in front of his house.

There's also the possibility that the random dude standing in his yard as he pulled up was a surprised thief who really did threaten the guy's life.

 

[hornadylnl]

There's also the possibility that the random dude standing in his yard as he pulled up was a surprised thief who really did threaten the guy's life.

If he were 17 and wearing a hoody, it's a guarantee.

 

[Iroquois]

How come nobody's asked the obvious question? Why didnt the salesman have a gun
and defend himself. Would that have made his trespass a felony. Crazy people carry guns every
day, with or without permits. Some even have badges.

 

[NYFelon]

This literally happened several doors down from a girl I grew up with. She posted about it on FB, he had been at her house just earlier. She's scared as all heck.

I did a stint as a Kirby salesman in my youth. Other than once being charged by a dog that broke loose, never was I threatened. "I am not interested." "Thank you for stopping by but I do not take visitors or salesmen." Getting shot and killed? Come on now.

 

[Denny347]

Another "isolated" incident involving a gun owner.