It may be disrespectful, but it's still their right. You can't pick and choose what rights should be taken away. Anyone who carries a gun and wants to "beat up" anyone burning a flag better not get pissed off if someone beats them up for carrying a gun. And in my opinion, any vet who gets physical over flag burning doesn't know what they fought for. I understand getting angry, because I do too, but it's no excuse to break the law.
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Flag Burning
- Thread starter MrSmitty
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Our nation's flag, and even our nation's Constitution are not what should be revered. It is the ideas that these things represent that should be revered, and only insofar as the Constitution and the flag represent and protect those ideas.
If I find that the government of the United States does a disservice to liberty, justice, or the people of this country, I'll burn a flag too.
Truth be told, I have to laugh a little when I see an American burning a flag or a copy of the Constitution. They use their freedom of expression to disrespect the freedom of expression that these things represent. They are not aware of the irony of what they do.
If I find that the government of the United States does a disservice to liberty, justice, or the people of this country, I'll burn a flag too.
Truth be told, I have to laugh a little when I see an American burning a flag or a copy of the Constitution. They use their freedom of expression to disrespect the freedom of expression that these things represent. They are not aware of the irony of what they do.
After reading several posts today from our military members here, I think it is safe to say that military service is a lot like a religion to the people in the military. I'm not saying this as a slam or as a compliment, simply as an observation. You guys take orders without questioning them and you get upset when your holy relic (the flag, in this case) gets defaced. The only problem with religion is that some people take it too far. There are fanatics in every religion, and the US military religion certainly isn't exempt from having fanatics.
When you "do everything you can to hurt someone" who burned our flag, you're a fanatic, and probably, like most religious fanatics, a criminal. Because, you can not assault someone for exercising their freedom of speech. The last military thread I was involved in made me realize something else. Most people who join the military don't mind giving up their rights to protect the United States of America. I do. And once you're back in the United States and your service is over, you have your rights back. You can't go around treading on people who exercise their American rights. If you do, then you're a tyrant.
I probably won't ever understand the pride and emotion you guys feel when you see the flag flying or burning. I also don't understand why people are killed over images of Muhammad. Or why Christians hold up "You're going to hell!" signs at homosexual's funerals. I'm not a part of any organized religion, so no, I admit that I don't fully understand where you're coming from, but I'm also thankful that I don't.
There is one thing I know though, I'm on INGO because I own firearms and I like to talk about them. I carry them for self defense and if any member of any religion attacks me because he is a little off balance...
Oh so now the great one is threatening me with violence. Such a hypocrite. You are enjoying your freedom at the cost of those that given their sweat, tears and blood for this country and flag. You talk a good talk but to me it just proves that those that talk the most have done the least.
I'm in favor of respecting what others hold sacred. I think it's an easy upgrade that anyone can make. But if a person chooses to disrespect that sacred thing, as long as it's their property they are within their rights, and any aggression against them is wrong. Physically assaulting someone who has disrespected one's beliefs is indefensible. It's the exact mentality we are supposedly at war against.
Oh so now the great one is threatening me with violence. Such a hypocrite. You are enjoying your freedom at the cost of those that given their sweat, tears and blood for this country and flag. You talk a good talk but to me it just proves that those that talk the most have done the least.
i dont think he's threatening you with violence. rather he is making the statement that anyone who threatens him for exercising his rights, regardless of popularity, will be met with appropriate action.
as i said before, flag burners are scum. but they have the right to be scum. just as KKK idiots have the right to march and protest. I thank heaven that men and women have served and even died to preserve our rights....including the right to be a complete and utter jackass.
I find the ideas deeply sacred. I find the institutions, documents, and colors tasked with defending them not at all to be.
Many people hold deeply contemptible things to be sacred, such as Wahhabi Islam. Our tongues should not be held in ridiculing the dangerous, stupid, and ridiculous, even if it is held deeply sacred by many.
Oh so now the great one is threatening me with violence. Such a hypocrite. You are enjoying your freedom at the cost of those that given their sweat, tears and blood for this country and flag. You talk a good talk but to me it just proves that those that talk the most have done the least.
You took what I said the wrong way. First off, I'm not the great one and second, I'm certainly not threatening YOU with violence. I'm just saying that I carry firearms for self defense and I will defend myself from people who attack me for being an American. I love this country and all of the freedom that comes with it.
I don't know how many times I have to say it on this forum, but my fingers aren't sore yet, so here - I haven't done anything to preserve liberty in the United States, I admit that. But I also have the sense to know that you, specifically, individually, haven't either. Even George Washington didn't fight the revolutionary war alone, and it wasn't just the military that got the revolution going.
As for flag burning and attacking people who do so. Wouldn't it be more productive to go up to someone burning a flag and ask why they are doing it. Explain it them that they are able to burn that flag because of the country they are doing it in, like Tuoder said.
still would like to see my one armed 80yr old dad stump a mud hole in a flag burners chest..call it what ya want..200 yrs ago it was legal for Britian to take what they wanted...well..thank god we had some men and women with guts and honor..today..not so much...Obama will have a easier time then the british did..the brain washing has begun!!
You're right, you wordsmiths have an answer for everything. Enjoy your freedom that you did nothing to earn. As far as me and my fellow vets you have no right to say we did nothing. Just by offering ourselves to serve is more then most have done. Once you lose friends and loved ones in combat you come talk to me until then I'm done with you, specifically, individually.
yup...they have no idea whats its like to not only bury love ones , but then to be handed an american flag that was draped over their casket...fold it... incase that flag..and guard it as if their life was somehow embedded in that flag....saddens me to think some view her as just a cloth...they can pass any stupid law they want...burn a flag?...i'll take one for the team...any day
i'll say it....if he was on that battle field with a rifle in his hands...it was his finger that pulled the trigger...at some point you realize that it all comes down to you...each soldier individually presered freedom...cause when they die on that battlefield...it was they alone that payed the price..and i thank them...I didn't say vets did nothing to preserve liberty in the United States. I said you, specifically, individually did nothing. Are you trying to say that you alone preserved freedom in the United States?
yup...they have no idea whats its like to not only bury love ones , but then to be handed an american flag that was draped over their casket...fold it... incase that flag..and guard it as if their life was somehow embedded in that flag....saddens me to think some view her as just a cloth...they can pass any stupid law they want...burn a flag?...i'll take one for the team...any day
I can honestly admit that I do not know what that feels like. I can understand where you're coming from with how you explained it. It isn't just a piece of cloth to me, it is a symbol.
To me, there are much bigger issues. It is just foolish for INGO members to divide over some *** burning our flag. It is OUR flag. We're all Americans. Why aren't we all balling up our fist over the fact that we have a group of traitors in the white house, flying that flag, pretending to honor and safeguard what it stands for. They won't enforce our borders, they try to shut down private industries, they took over our banks, they're ruining our currency, they rammed health care down our throats, they want to do the same with cap and trade, and we all know that they want to come after our firearms. Why are we arguing over a burning flag when our entire nation is being torched by our own president? I believe that there are bigger fish to [STRIKE]fry[/STRIKE] impeach.
well said....and i do agree...but you have to understand..it all starts with the little things...with that said...i am done...time for a little brewsky and nap time...
And this means what, exactly? That on the basis of a certain kind of experience certain people should just get a free pass to attack and kill anyone who pisses them off? Is that the sort of "freedom" our soldiers fight for? A return to feudalism where a knight or samurai can kill a peasant with impunity by virtue of their station? The vets I know wouldn't want that.
I don't agree with the people who think flag burning is a good idea but it is their right on their own property. The flag is a symbol of our country and what it stands for which by our constitution gives us the right to express ourselves as we see fit. However, I would not hesitate to laugh at a flag burner if he catches his own idiot self on fire in the process or gets a good slapping around by someone.
theweakerbrother
Grandmaster
The principles of freedom cannot be harmed by someone burning the representation of it.
Does the artist shame the representation of the cruciform when he places it in a bucket of urine?
The ideals and principles behind the cruciform are not shamed.. a man's actions towards an inanimate object are protected by the first amendment.
Does the artist shame the representation of the cruciform when he places it in a bucket of urine?
The ideals and principles behind the cruciform are not shamed.. a man's actions towards an inanimate object are protected by the first amendment.
1. The Supreme Court of the United States says that burning the flag is protected political expression under the First Amendment to the Constitution.
2. I wore this country's uniform proudly until a doctor said I couldn't do it anymore, and I find it patently offensive and degrading that you'd think otherwise.
3. When I wore that uniform, I did so under an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. Not the "country" or the "flag," but the document that give all of those things any legitimacy at all. You know, the same one that those guys in the black robe at One First Street said defends one's right to burn the flag if they so choose.
4. I know what kind of emotions I get towards the flag, but they do not represent rational arguments for using the government's force to defend it. The First Amendment protects all sorts of political speech with which I do not agree. Essential to freedom is respect and tolerance for others' views and method of expression. It is only by allowing free and unfettered political discourse that freedom can survive at all.
We're about to find out all about free speech here real soon. The supreme Court is about to rule on Snyder v. Phelps. And if you guys think that Mr. Snyder is going to get anything from the Court, I'm sorry to say that you're mistaken. I wouldn't be surprised to see that one go 8-1 for Phelps.
And that's the problem with extreme responses to abhorrent speech: they give it a bigger platform and a wider audience. Snyder has given Phelps the chance to have the Supreme Court validate him. If anyone thought the man was insufferable before...
