First Training

[Never A Victim]

So in defense of NRA certified instructors... which I have in both pistol and rifle... the courses are basic but cover a lot of material. Not just how to shoot but how to teach, how to keep a student engaged and motivated to learn, how to put together a class, advertise, budget a class and most importantly safety. Is there a huge variation in instructor skill level? Sure there is. Sometimes those that can't do really can teach.

On the flip side, the last "tactical" instructor class I attended had a pistol pointed towards me within a few minutes when he was teaching SUL. It was hard to focus on anything he said for the next 30 minutes. I was pretty pissed.

That's because it's not very hard to point a gun at or near someone when teaching SUL. Especially if you're close to other people, or you start moving around.

 

[Jackson]

There are a lot of fun activities in the shooting world that aren't related to self defense and winning gun fights. Whether NRA training, or any other training class, is right for a student depends very much on the student, his/her comfort level, and starting point.

I like some of what Tactical Response teaches and I've taken a few of their classes. In general I would recommend them. However, I've personally witnessed a student in a TR class who was very new, totally uncomfortable with the drills, and elected not to return the second day. The class didn't move at a pace where he could get comfortable. He would have benefited greatly from one of Vert's NRA classes. That's my opinion, of course.

So I think it's silly to dismiss a whole group of classes because it doesn't meet your idea of gunfighter university. I don't need to take 3rd grade reading, but I am glad it's available for 3rd graders who need a class at that level.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

There are a lot of fun activities in the shooting world that aren't related to self defense and winning gun fights. Whether NRA training, or any other training class, is right for a student depends very much on the student, his/her comfort level, and starting point.

I like some of what Tactical Response teaches and I've taken a few of their classes. In general I would recommend them. However, I've personally witnessed a student in a TR class who was very new, totally uncomfortable with the drills, and elected not to return the second day. The class didn't move at a pace where he could get comfortable. He would have benefited greatly from one of Vert's NRA classes. That's my opinion, of course.

So I think it's silly to dismiss a whole group of classes because it doesn't meet your idea of gunfighter university. I don't need to take 3rd grade reading, but I am glad it's available for 3rd graders who need a class at that level.

To be clear, that's not what I said (althouth I realize someone else since has). For me, the problem is not their scope, nor the entry level point, nor the goals of the student.

My comment comes from things like seeing an NRA instructor shooting a pistol using a teacup and saucer grip. That's simply wrong, regardless of the student's goals or skill level. Which is why I said vet them beyond the paper, not to avoid them. There's a big market for people who do need basic safety, basic cleaning, etc. training. I'm really glad someone is out there getting that training to them, I just hope those people realize their responsibility and also realize what they know and can ethically teach vs branching off into topics they really know jack about.

 

[Jackson]

To be clear, that's not what I said (althouth I realize someone else since has). For me, the problem is not their scope, nor the entry level point, nor the goals of the student.

My comment comes from things like seeing an NRA instructor shooting a pistol using a teacup and saucer grip. That's simply wrong, regardless of the student's goals or skill level. Which is why I said vet them beyond the paper, not to avoid them. There's a big market for people who do need basic safety, basic cleaning, etc. training. I'm really glad someone is out there getting that training to them, I just hope those people realize their responsibility and also realize what they know and can ethically teach vs branching off into topics they really know jack about.

Agreed. There are a lot of less-than-competent instructors, NRA and otherwise. As has been mentioned, it is very easy to get an NRA instructor certification. (Heck, I went and got one and I'm definitely no instructor.)

The buyer must perform due diligence. Unfortunately, that can be difficult. It's so much harder if you don't have any experience. This is definitely an issue in the training market.

 

[VERT]

Agreed. There are a lot of less-than-competent instructors, NRA and otherwise. As has been mentioned, it is very easy to get an NRA instructor certification. (Heck, I went and got one and I'm definitely no instructor.)
.

You are more competent then most and more so then me.

As far as NRA Basic Pistol not teaching surviving a gunfight that is by design. Basic Pistol is a familiarization, safety, basic marksmanship class. It is really aimed at people who are new to shooting handguns. My guess is there are many people packing handguns around that could not pass the new certification test with their carry gun.

The newer Defensive Pistol module gets more into mindset and such. I still would not consider it to be a class in gun fighting. Still a foundational level course that introduces a broad range of topics. Not a Tactical Response course by no means. My guess is TR is targeting a different clientele. (In full disclosure I have never taken a TR course but I have attended a course with some of their instructors.).

 

[TangoSierraEcho]

I'm planning on purchasing my first firearm (G19 gen 4) in the next 6-8 months and I plan on taking my first training class then as well. I've been to the range a few times with experienced shooters, but this would be my first actual training class. Which class(es) should I plan on taking first? NRA basic pistol? An intro to personal defense with a firearm? As I've only fired a gun a few times, I don't think I've developed any bad habits yet and I want to keep it that way. I certainly plan to do lots of dry firing at home to develop muscle memory, but I want to get proper instruction on those techniques first.

At the risk of sounding patronizing I think it is fantastic that you are looking to get training. I think too often people assume they know what they are doing without really knowing. IMHO there is no such thing as too much training.

 

[Cameramonkey]

That's because it's not very hard to point a gun at or near someone when teaching SUL. Especially if you're close to other people, or you start moving around.

If only Blue Guns werent so darned expensive and hard to find.