First OC Incident Story

[Kev]

Hmph! No Jackboots! No proning out! No 5 year old girls!

I might as well go back to work.

Ha.. sorry for the disappointment!

 

[Sureshot129]

I may get flamed for this but I have been approached a few times in South Bend with people who lay these stories on me.
The 1st was a guy outside a bar who told me he needed money to take the South Shore back to Chicago. Long story short I asked him for something that proved he was from Chicago, while he was digging through his shirt pockets I saw a local library card and in order to get a card you have to prove residence in the county. He showed me a work ID card with his picture and a barcode no address or name. I called him on the library card and he started crying. (not my intention to make him cry) He lays another sob story on me and at that point it was too late he lied to me.
The 2nd was a guy at a gas station who said that he lived an hour south of South Bend and he had been working in MI and his boss slashed his tire and ran off with his pay and needed gas to get back home. I again asked for ID and he shows me his DL and covered everything but his name which he had already told me. I asked how long he had lived in that town he said most of his life. I told him that I respected his right to privacy but he could have shown me the city without showing me his address coupled with the fact that he was wearing a Elkhart T-ball hat.
For clarity I have no problem helping someone that needs help but if your giving up dignity you might as well be truthful while your doing it. Also in both situation I was positioned, thinking, and watching with the mindset that I may have to defend myself and was prepared to do so.

 

[Bisbobble]

Sureshot129

I don't know why you would get flamed, sounds prudent to me. You heard them out and decided not to help liars. To help or not to help. It all depends on what you personally are willing to reward. Honest work or bald face lie.

"You chose wisely"

 

[jbombelli]

Why can't these guys ever show up when I have to mow my back yard?

 

[Kev]

@ Sureshot129

Yes, I agree with you being careful and checking before handing out. In my situation.. he started that way.. but then actually worked for it.

I figured, even if he was lying and going immediately to the liquor store.. at least he worked for it. I know many others that would have just walked on.

 

[AndersonIN]

Sureshot129

I don't know why you would get flamed, sounds prudent to me. You heard them out and decided not to help liars. To help or not to help. It all depends on what you personally are willing to reward. Honest work or bald face lie.

"You chose wisely"

I'll tell you why!!! He didn't have PROBABLE CAUSE to ask for an ID!!! He had NO right to ask for this!!!! Were they committing a crime? Were they suspected of com.............wait a minute!!! He isn't a LEO...never mind carry on!

 

[Spike_351]

IMO I have no problems helping those that are willing to help themselves. You were aware and cautious while still being respectful. I most likeley, would have reacted similarly.

It's difficult to determine what someone's motives are at any given time until they present them. Mayby he had no ill intentions and was just startled/surprised to see your sidearm.

Trying to give everyone the benefit of the doubt in any encounter is hard to do and it seems as if that's what you did even though your SA was a bit heightened. Some of this may have been due to a bad part of town. I can recall a time recently when I was in Columbus for some training. While I was there, my gun was in the trunk, unloaded, separate from the ammo. I was in a bad part of town picking up some things to bring back to Indiana. I felt similarly at that time.



my two cents.

there is no good part of town in columbus. lived there, never going back.

 

[Spike_351]

Hi Everyone!
I am sharing my story on my first Open Carry.. and really any carry incident.

This happened yesterday on the west side of South Bend. My grandmother lives there, and has a garden that has seen the end of the season. So my wife, kids, and I went over to pull out the plants, stakes, etc. For those of you that know this part of town, you know it can be a little sketchy at times. So I decided to open carry my Bersa Thunder .380

I had pulled my truck right up to the garden, which is in the back of the house, next to an open field. While I was working, my wife was cutting the grass and the kids were playing football.
During this time, I noticed a man walking on the other side of the field. No biggie, people walk around all the time. But he was coming in my direction.

I continued to work, but kept my eye on him.. as he continued coming directly towards me. Now at this point, I committed that he was coming to me. And I immediately took in my surroundings and sized him up a bit. I figured "great.. out with my family, carrying a gun, and I actually might need to use it.. "

The man did come up to the area, and I heard my wife call my name. She had just noticed, and wanted my attention. However I did not look back, I kept eyes on him and started to walk toward him... Keeping him on the opposite side of my truck.. and my family.

I greeted him with a "Hi, how ya doing".. staying on my side of the truck. His response was "well do ya want the truth or you want me to lie to ya?"...

Immediately my bells went off.. i thought.. Either he has a complaint on what I am doing or looking for trouble.. So I replied "well, I want the truth".

He then started in on how his kids have not eaten and need medicine.. and then stopped mid-sentence with wide eyes. He just noticed the gun.
He said "oh.. wow.. you have a gun".. staring at it. I said nothing at first.. I was still racing in my mind everything around me.

He then surprised me a bit holding out his hand and giving his name. I shook his hand, gave my name in return, and I asked what he wanted.

He did go back into the kids needing food/medicine bit, but this time emphasied that he was looking for work. He wanted to know if I had any work that I could give him to help out.

Now.. was this his plan all along? Or did he change his tune once he saw what I had on the hip? I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.. and I did respect that he was willing to work.. not just flat out ask for a hand-out.

I mentioned that I did not have any cash on me, but that I respected his willingness to work for something. And with that, against the wish of my wife, I did give him a couple rows of plants to work on.
He was thankful and he did work. Sure he was a little slower than I was.. and I could tell he was out of shape by his sweating/breathing.. but he was working.

Now during the time of his work.. I never put my back to him. I never got in close proximity to him.. and kept him at a distance from my family. I stress this because I made a cognitive effort to do so. I sure did not trust him.. but something in me still respected his willingness to work.

After the work was complete, I gave him a bag of leftover veggies that were just going to be thrown away.. and $20. (I sent my wife to the ATM, while I stayed there working/watching him)
He thanked me and I re-iterated that I was helping him because of his willingness to work. I was hoping to drive that point home. He then went on his way.


So that is it... sure.. now it seems like no big deal.. but that encounter could have gone wrong in so many ways. My wife was uncomfortable the whole time and did not approve of me letting him help.

What would you have done? Do you agree with me trying to help, or did I put too much at risk?

Rep inbound, I don't think you put a whole lot at risk, it seems you kept you and your family at a distance while still helping out another person who may have severely needed it, we need more people like that in this world.

 

[cbseniour]

Ya did good Kev.

 

[Kev]

Once again, I just want to say thank you for all of the support, rep, and kind words. I appreciate the confidence boost.


Not that I'm looking forward to another encounter mind you..

 

[daddymikey1975]

there is no good part of town in columbus. lived there, never going back.

Not much choice in the matter. It was a one day work related trip.

I certainly don't intend on returning unless I'm forced to LOL

 

[Captain Morgan]

No problem with you putting him to work and paying him for it. But I have a question nobody has brought up yet. You say you shook his hand. Did you shake with your dominant hand, or your weak hand? I only point this out as this situation could have turned bad in that instant. The guy could have grabbed tightly to your hand while pulling a knife that you didn't see, then using it on you. Were you still separated by the truck at this point, or not? Obviously this would have helped a bit, but still could have gone bad. That's really my only criticism on your actions.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

No problem with you putting him to work and paying him for it. But I have a question nobody has brought up yet. You say you shook his hand. Did you shake with your dominant hand, or your weak hand? I only point this out as this situation could have turned bad in that instant. The guy could have grabbed tightly to your hand while pulling a knife that you didn't see, then using it on you. Were you still separated by the truck at this point, or not? Obviously this would have helped a bit, but still could have gone bad. That's really my only criticism on your actions.

I didn't bring it up because I figured it was pretty common knowledge to never extend the Hand of Peace without a backup weapon in or near the other...

 

[Blackdog765]

You asked our opinion, and I think you did fine. I'm more on the skeptical side, so I'm not sure I would have been as giving as you were - so I commend you for that kind act.

I also was concerned about the handshake. I was involved in an incident in our neighborhood where the police were dispatched - and the kid ended up being asked by the police to leave the area voluntarily. He agreed and attempted to shake the police officers hand - and they refused to shake his hand. It was interesting to watch because our culture has taught us it's polite to shake - and I think the kid in this case was truly wanting to show respect, but that police officer wasn't about to shake that kids hand.

The only other thought I had after reading your story is if the guy might try to come back to your grandmothers property in an attempt to get more work. Hopefully by you OC'ing that will help him respect that area better...

Thanks for sharing the story.

 

[CPT Nervous]

I commend you. I would have done similar. I always try to help people, and if he was willing to work for the money, infinitely better. I do not hand out money, but if you will help yourself, I can help you, too.

Who knows what he was up to. You handled it perfectly. Rep inbound.

 

[mrortega]

I dropped by jeremy's place a couple of weeks ago and snapped a pic of jeremy's girlfriend mowing his yard:

This just so screams for Neg Rep. But I LMFOA!

 

[mrortega]

I have screwed up and let a stranger get close to me but I wasn't at hand shake distance. OP probably felt that the dude wasn't an immediate knife threat but if he was.....yeowweeee!

Years ago coming out of a convience store a panhandler asked if I had a cigarette. I told him I don't smoke and walked away. The guy looked really down, physically and emotionally. I went back and gave him $5 and said, "Go into the store and buy yourself a pack." I know, I know. Smoking kills but this guy needed something and I figured if he had a pack he wouldn't have to humiliate himself asking for help for a couple hours

 

[AndersonIN]

This just so screams for Neg Rep. But I LMFOA!

That explains the 'commando' and the knee boots!

 

[Somemedic]

Hi Everyone!
I am sharing my story on my first Open Carry.. and really any carry incident.

This happened yesterday on the west side of South Bend. My grandmother lives there, and has a garden that has seen the end of the season. So my wife, kids, and I went over to pull out the plants, stakes, etc. For those of you that know this part of town, you know it can be a little sketchy at times. So I decided to open carry my Bersa Thunder .380

I had pulled my truck right up to the garden, which is in the back of the house, next to an open field. While I was working, my wife was cutting the grass and the kids were playing football.
During this time, I noticed a man walking on the other side of the field. No biggie, people walk around all the time. But he was coming in my direction.

I continued to work, but kept my eye on him.. as he continued coming directly towards me. Now at this point, I committed that he was coming to me. And I immediately took in my surroundings and sized him up a bit. I figured "great.. out with my family, carrying a gun, and I actually might need to use it.. "

The man did come up to the area, and I heard my wife call my name. She had just noticed, and wanted my attention. However I did not look back, I kept eyes on him and started to walk toward him... Keeping him on the opposite side of my truck.. and my family.

I greeted him with a "Hi, how ya doing".. staying on my side of the truck. His response was "well do ya want the truth or you want me to lie to ya?"...

Immediately my bells went off.. i thought.. Either he has a complaint on what I am doing or looking for trouble.. So I replied "well, I want the truth".

He then started in on how his kids have not eaten and need medicine.. and then stopped mid-sentence with wide eyes. He just noticed the gun.
He said "oh.. wow.. you have a gun".. staring at it. I said nothing at first.. I was still racing in my mind everything around me.

He then surprised me a bit holding out his hand and giving his name. I shook his hand, gave my name in return, and I asked what he wanted.

He did go back into the kids needing food/medicine bit, but this time emphasied that he was looking for work. He wanted to know if I had any work that I could give him to help out.

Now.. was this his plan all along? Or did he change his tune once he saw what I had on the hip? I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.. and I did respect that he was willing to work.. not just flat out ask for a hand-out.

I mentioned that I did not have any cash on me, but that I respected his willingness to work for something. And with that, against the wish of my wife, I did give him a couple rows of plants to work on.
He was thankful and he did work. Sure he was a little slower than I was.. and I could tell he was out of shape by his sweating/breathing.. but he was working.

Now during the time of his work.. I never put my back to him. I never got in close proximity to him.. and kept him at a distance from my family. I stress this because I made a cognitive effort to do so. I sure did not trust him.. but something in me still respected his willingness to work.

After the work was complete, I gave him a bag of leftover veggies that were just going to be thrown away.. and $20. (I sent my wife to the ATM, while I stayed there working/watching him)
He thanked me and I re-iterated that I was helping him because of his willingness to work. I was hoping to drive that point home. He then went on his way.


So that is it... sure.. now it seems like no big deal.. but that encounter could have gone wrong in so many ways. My wife was uncomfortable the whole time and did not approve of me letting him help.

What would you have done? Do you agree with me trying to help, or did I put too much at risk?

Doing the right thing usually ain't easy. It would have been so much easier to simply dismiss him sending him on his way and allowing you to continue with your work. You not only allowed the man to retain some dignity but instilled in him that there is still humanity and caring.

How desperate was he needing food and medicine for his children? Maybe it was a load, who knows? But I'm a glad to hear you were carrying and didn't have to find out.

 

[Kev]

Thank you again to all for the feedback! I really do appreciate the input.


There was a couple comments/questions on the handshake.
Yes, unfortuantely, I did use my right/dominate hand. The hand that I would have needed to draw if things went bad.

Like many others, the handshake to me is common and a sign of respect. I just didn't think at that point... BUT, yes, the truck was still between myself and him at the point of shaking. So I feel I was still in a good position, yet I will take this as a point to improve on.

Thanks again for all the positive support and rep. It does make me feel better about my decisions, and confident enough to not let my guard down.