FBI Seizes Couple's Life-Savings Without Charging Them of Crime…

[Denny347]

A hard NO! If the fine structure covers it, so be it, but seizure of citizens property is wrong, anytime.

Even with PC as outlined in the 4th Amednment?

 

[Ingomike]

Even with PC as outlined in the 4th Amednment?

I believe I used that word in a previous post…

 

[Route 45]

Wonder if they could have stolen their bitcoin? Don’t think so.

Hackers stole record $4 billion in cryptocurrency last year

Criminals with ties to North Korea helped create "the biggest year ever for crypto hacking" in 2022, according to Chainalysis.

www.cbsnews.com

Feds announce seizure of $3.36 billion in bitcoin stolen a decade ago from illegal Silk Road marketplace—the second-largest crypto recovery

James Zhong, of Gainesville, Georgia, pleaded guilty Friday to wire fraud in the theft of about $3.36 billion in bitcoin from the illegal Silk Road marketplace.

www.cnbc.com

Millions in Cryptocurrency Vanished as Agents Watched Helplessly

Feds locked up a storage device full of ill-gotten tokens. Then someone started stealing the loot.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[jamil]

Even with PC as outlined in the 4th Amednment?

Fourth amendment deals with unreasonable searches and seizures. So then the courts have to devise litmus tests and precedents around the word “unreasonable”.

The 5th Amendment is extremely clear. It’s not simply probable cause. It’s due process. You want to seize their **** for department use? Take it to court. Battle it out with their representation in front of a judge.

 

[BigRed]

Right, if we just give them the Presidency, House, and Senate think what they could do...

Repeal obammycare?

 

[Leadeye]

Sounds like they have a court case going we'll see how it plays out. I would think that if the siezure was illegal, the government should have to be paying the money back plus interest accrued.

 

[Denny347]

Fourth amendment deals with unreasonable searches and seizures. So then the courts have to devise litmus tests and precedents around the word “unreasonable”.

The 5th Amendment is extremely clear. It’s not simply probable cause. It’s due process. You want to seize their **** for department use? Take it to court. Battle it out with their representation in front of a judge.

I'm clear on that. While I haven't been involved in the civil forfeiture process, they do take these to a judge. Now it's a civil judge and the department must convince a judge (or jury I suppose).

 

[Ingomike]

Fourth amendment deals with unreasonable searches and seizures. So then the courts have to devise litmus tests and precedents around the word “unreasonable”.

The 5th Amendment is extremely clear. It’s not simply probable cause. It’s due process. You want to seize their **** for department use? Take it to court. Battle it out with their representation in front of a judge.

The department should not get the money until all appeals are exhausted and if they lose the IRS interest levels should be paid plus attorneys fees. All this should come from department budgets. There needs to be risk for the department to deter frivolous seizures…

 

[nipprdog]

It wasn't a bank. It was a private storage company.

the money was in a safety deposit box in a bank

 

[BigRed]

the money was in a safety deposit box in a bank

Not trying to argue and perhaps I am misreading...

Beverly Hills store admits to using safe deposit boxes to launder drug money

The company that ran a Beverly Hills store that rented out safe deposit boxes has agreed to plead guilty to conspiring with customers to launder drug money.

www.latimes.com

US Private Vaults was a Beverly Hills store that rented out safe deposit boxes. It seemed geared to folks that specifically did not want assets inside of a bank.

 

[jedi]

Wonder if they could have stolen their bitcoin? Don’t think so.

If the bitcoin was "offline" in a physcial crypto wallet (aka USB device) the FBI could physically have taken the device.

 

[jedi]

You don't think the FBI employs hackers?

.gov can't afford the skilled hackers they would need.

Hackers make much better money working alone.

Do you not recall the FBI wanting a hacker to jailbreak the iPhone of the Cali shooter cause even Apple was unwilling to unlock the phone.

 

[Ingomike]

the money was in a safety deposit box in a bank

Upon review, @BigRed is correct.

“The owners of a Los Angeles-area company called U.S. Private Vaults Inc. were raided by the bureau after it was discovered they had been allowing drug dealers to launder money through the business, The Los Angeles Times reported.”

“They accepted a plea bargain that would see them not charged with any crimes but did allow the FBI to take $86 million in cash from various deposit boxes stored at their business. The Times reported millions of dollars more in jewelry and other items were also taken.”

 

[manifest destiny]

Theft. The government, with their monopoly on use of force, take from citizens without so much as an accusation, let alone a prosecution and conviction. Theft. Tyrannical theft.

 

[manifest destiny]

Upon review, @BigRed is correct.

“The owners of a Los Angeles-area company called U.S. Private Vaults Inc. were raided by the bureau after it was discovered they had been allowing drug dealers to launder money through the business, The Los Angeles Times reported.”

“They accepted a plea bargain that would see them not charged with any crimes but did allow the FBI to take $86 million in cash from various deposit boxes stored at their business. The Times reported millions of dollars more in jewelry and other items were also taken.”

Doesn't laundering money usually involve creating the illusion of receiving the monies via legitimate means? How does one launder money through a deposit box?

 

[Denny347]

Theft. The government, with their monopoly on use of force, take from citizens without so much as an accusation, let alone a prosecution and conviction. Theft. Tyrannical theft.

Well, actually, Civil Forfeiture is a civil charge and they have to go before a judge/jury and show that what is being seized was either ill gotten profits, or bought with ill gotten profits (that is the accusation). Civil of course means 51% is all that is needed to prove the case. The Judge/jury gets to decide.

 

[manifest destiny]

Well, actually, Civil Forfeiture is a civil charge and they have to go before a judge/jury and show that what is being seized was either ill gotten profits, or bought with ill gotten profits (that is the accusation). Civil of course means 51% is all that is needed to prove the case. The Judge/jury gets to decide.

Respectfully, no. Civil forfeiture requires neither charges nor convictions. It's blatant theft.

 

[Ingomike]

Respectfully, no. Civil forfeiture requires neither charges nor convictions. It's blatant theft.

And SCOTUS already slapped hands for this in Indiana…

 

[Denny347]

Respectfully, no. Civil forfeiture requires neither charges nor convictions. It's blatant theft.

Well, they don't exist in Civil cases. Theft though...interesting.

 

[Denny347]

And SCOTUS already slapped hands for this in Indiana…

That is being looked into

Do Indiana's Civil Forfeiture Laws Violate The State Constitution?

Prosecutors and law enforcement agencies say civil forfeiture empowers them to take the fruits of crime and use some of the proceeds to further other investigations. But critics say that creates conflicts of interest – and may even violate the state constitution.

www.wfyi.org