external safety hatred syndrome

[bwframe]

...I don't quite understand how carrying without using the safety is not the same as carrying with a gun that has no safety...

Mechanical safety issues aside. If you are carrying an gun with an external safety and choose not to use it, does it not become a liability in the event that it might get inadvertently turned to the on position?

I don't know all the answers either. That's why I'm asking.

 

[snowman46919]

Oh my gosh, this is too good.

Now Rhino is involved, I cant wait for the noobs to start telling him how to shoot!

Where is that popcorn smiley! This is too good.

Too good.

I think we should run one of them thru a USPSA course vs Rhino or Bwframe and see how much that thumb safety slows them down.

Sorry this is the second time you have said someone was telling someone else how to shoot. I double checked my posts and I know its not me and I looked over the last page and didn't see anyone giving someone instructions on how to shoot. So who dun it?

Mechanical safety issues aside. If you are carrying an gun with an external safety and choose not to use it, does it not become a liability in the event that it might get inadvertently turned to the on position?

I don't know all the answers either. That's why I'm asking.

Very good point, I didn't look at it from that aspect.

 

[dom1104]

Mechanical safety issues aside. If you are carrying an gun with an external safety and choose not to use it, does it not become a liability in the event that it might get inadvertently turned to the on position?

I don't know all the answers either. That's why I'm asking.

I know a few people who carry a 92F, <very few> and they carry it decocked with the safety off.

Dont know why, dont really care, wouldnt ever carry that beast, but there it is.

I wouldnt consider it "unsafe" personally, but you raise a good point about the safety getting switched "on".

 

[iChokePeople]

 

[ATF Consumer]

I know a few people who carry a 92F, <very few> and they carry it decocked with the safety off.

Dont know why, dont really care, wouldnt ever carry that beast, but there it is.

I wouldnt consider it "unsafe" personally, but you raise a good point about the safety getting switched "on".

I think carrying an 92F in Condition 2 is as safe as carrying a 1911 in Condition 1. I actually think it is more safe, as the trigger is required to be depressed fully back before the firing pin block moves to allow the firing pin to proceed forward.
With it being decocked, there is no possible way the firing pin can hit the round in the chamber.
On a 1911, if the safety is bumped off and the sear breaks...bang
There is no supporting documentation that this has ever happened...but it is possible.

 

[bobzilla]

It's also possible that if I fart in a whirlwind the Golden Gate Bridge may erupt in flames from a passing flying saucer shooting it's death ray at a passing bad alien spaceship on the other side of the planet. I mean... it's POSSIBLE.

 

[dom1104]

I think carrying an 92F in Condition 2 is as safe as carrying a 1911 in Condition 1. I actually think it is more safe, as the trigger is required to be depressed fully back before the firing pin block moves to allow the firing pin to proceed forward.
With it being decocked, there is no possible way the firing pin can hit the round in the chamber.
On a 1911, if the safety is bumped off and the sear breaks...bang
There is no supporting documentation that this has ever happened...but it is possible.

You have to look hard to find a 1911 that doesnt have a firing pin block. Just saying. MOST have some sort of firing pin disconnect. <none of mine do, but it takes some doing to find them>

I disagree wholeheartedly, the 92F is DEFINATLY and WITHOUT A DOUBT less safe than a 1911....

Big ol chunky pistol like that is bound to cause back issues

 

[ATF Consumer]

It's also possible that if I fart in a whirlwind the Golden Gate Bridge may erupt in flames from a passing flying saucer shooting it's death ray at a passing bad alien spaceship on the other side of the planet. I mean... it's POSSIBLE.

So, are you saying that condition 0 on a 1911 is now safe?

 

[bobzilla]

Sure.... why not. That's no where NEAR what I was saying, but go for it. Apparently sarcasm and dark humor are lost on you in your quest to dominate the internets.

 

[88E30M50]

On a double action pistol that has a decocker/safety, it's fairly common to carry with the safety off and hammer decocked. I've carried Bersa's that way in the past, but more often carry with the safety on. A Sig P6 has a decocker, but no safety, which would result in a similar carry method as using the safety to decock and then turning the safety back off. On pistols with a slide mounted safety and stiff double action pull (PPK and Bersa 380), I'm more prone to carry with the safety off.

The idea is that with a long double action pull that's fairly stout, you can carry with the safety off and rely on the long pull to prevent an AD.

 

[bwframe]

On a double action pistol that has a decocker/safety, it's fairly common to carry with the safety off and hammer decocked...

Do you have some links or references where this is recommended by professionals?

I'm just a dumb dedicated 1911 guy. Please pardon me for being naive. It just seems quite odd to me to have a factory external safety that is not used. If it was not necessary or a detriment, why would it be or stay part of the gun's design?

 

[rhino]

Do you have some links or references where this is recommended by professionals?

I'm just a dumb dedicated 1911 guy. Please pardon me for being naive. It just seems quite odd to me to have a factory external safety that is not used. If it was not necessary or a detriment, why would it be or stay part of the gun's design?

I don't have links, but that's what every instructor with whom I've trained will advocate if you ask and you choose to carry a double action pistola. Sometimes and external safety exists solely because a contact spec required it, then the version that hits the market still has it.

When I've carried my Smith & Wessons, it's always with the hammer decocked and safety off. Same with my Browning BDM when I used to carry it. It was a non-issue when I carried a Sig Sauer P226, because it only had a decocker and no external safety.

 

[bwframe]

I don't have links, but that's what every instructor with whom I've trained will advocate if you ask and you choose to carry a double action pistola. Sometimes and external safety exists solely because a contact spec required it, then the version that hits the market still has it.

Thank you sir. That's good enough for me.
Now would that same methodology apply in said double actions with the hammer cocked? What about single actions?

 

[Fletch]

My, but you people do prattle on...

 

[JetGirl]

My, but you people do prattle on...

Hmm...
Translation:
Fletch; "IN!! "

 

[71silverbullet]

That was my only issue as not choosing to carry a weapon with a external safety... I will admit you hit the nail on the head also about training. I have not trained with such a weapon, and also admit really need to take some training. But saying that, I also know myself well. I know even with training, if I feel there is still the slightest 1% chance I could possibly flub it up in a stressful situation, I would still prefer something lacking that external safety.

So carry a1911 cocked and NOT locked. This is in no way different than carrying an xd, you still have the grip safety. Its all a visual thing, the hammer pulled back is scarry looking, and a glock or xd is still cocked you just can't see the hammer in the ready position. (this is purely for illustration, I would never carry my 1911 that way. Always cocked and locked!)
Plus if in a stressful situation if there's " the slightest 1% chance I could possibly flub" the safety could also be to your advantage

 

[iChokePeople]

I only halfway get this idea that one might forget to thumb the safety under stress. Do any of you think that under stress you might forget to pull the trigger?

 

[JetGirl]

I only halfway get this idea that one might forget to thumb the safety under stress. Do any of you think that under stress you might forget to pull the trigger?

I'm sure the people that do *not* practice/train with the thumb safety WILL forget to lever it... panic/stress = default to auto pilot.
Practice it = default to it. Don't = don't.

 

[jeremy]

I only halfway get this idea that one might forget to thumb the safety under stress. Do any of you think that under stress you might forget to pull the trigger?

The thing is, on pistols with frames were the Builder/Designer had enough insight to put an External Safety in an Ergonomic Position (quite like a 1911) I have NO problems with or using an EFS and see very little problems from its use and position. However, that being said there are LOTS of pistols out there that should have their Builder/Designer flogged due to where they EFS got placed. You know the ones that make you feel like you need either an extra joint in your Thumb or that you can do it one handed but two handed is just way more comfortable...

I'm sure the people that do *not* practice/train with the thumb safety WILL forget to lever it... panic/stress = default to auto pilot.
Practice it = default to it. Don't = don't.

Definitely...

 

[gunman41mag]

If the bad guy takes your gun, don't you want your gun to have a safety, so you don't get shot with your own gun