Escorted out of the Glenbrook Mall

[Manatee]

Funny, I carry concealed and go to malls, stores all sorts of places and never once had anyone challenge me about my concealed gun

Yah…me too. But then we don't get a chance to get on INGO and stir the pot and get the juices flowing like some people.

This is just the evolution of the pocket protector with 7 pens….or the guy carrying a calculator in a holster because he couldn't afford a cell phone in those days.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Did the OP get the officer's name? This begs for some follow-up as a "teachable moment".

My solution for carrying in places where signs have no force of law but could get me escorted out is to CC. But I always wear OWB so if it's too warm out or my wardrobe just happens to not cover it up then OC it is.

And I'm glad the Colonists didn't give the British 3.5/5 stars... We'd be living in a different country right now.

Same here. If I have to go somewhere that is against guns, OWB covered by shirt. I would hardly call it concealed though

 

[gjclark]

Actually I open carry because I can't carry for work but don't want to remove my gun from my IWB holster. I have decided that the best course of action is to leave my gun in my OWB in my car at work and put it on after work. I was planning on being in the mall for an extended period and hate having my coat. That was the situation. I wasn't trying to stir any pots.

 

[remauto1187]

To the OP and all others as it appplies. STOP whining and complaining OR do something about it! You have the right to make this cop famous along with his captain/watch commander, etc. Either do it OR STOP COMPLAINING.

 

[Bill of Rights]

He then told me "I appreciate you being relaxed about this. I like guns and always carry but you get guys that want to argue there constitutional rights and all it does is lead to an arrest. Also I will tell you that the constitutional right for guns only applies to the home. Away from home is a privilege and the state issues you a permit allowing you to do that."

I'll have to go read it again, I guess. It must be in the fine print. Very fine print.

Hmmm, think the federal courts have ruled differently on this. California being the latest.

No point arguing ... a letter to the chief about keeping officers informed on the law might be in order if you are so inclined.

Some of the lower federal courts have, you're correct, but I think he may have been talking about the Heller SCOTUS decision, in which Scalia specified an individual right but did not address anything outside the home (and McDonald reiterated this). Admittedly, I'm giving the officer a lot of credit here-with as much else as he misstated, almost anything he said further is questionable.

Actually I open carry because I can't carry for work but don't want to remove my gun from my IWB holster. I have decided that the best course of action is to leave my gun in my OWB in my car at work and put it on after work. I was planning on being in the mall for an extended period and hate having my coat. That was the situation. I wasn't trying to stir any pots.

Don't sweat that. Just remember that if our Founders had considered being armed, even visibly so, in public to be "stirring the pot", we'd all have an accent similar to Piers Morgan.

You didn't stir any pots. You went to work. You went to the mall. You did whatever other errands you had to do. The only difference between you doing that and some other random person doing that is that when you stick your wallet, keys, and change in your pockets in the morning, you also put on a holster and fill it with the appropriate item it's meant to hold, and if you decide not to carry somewhere, THAT is the conscious decision. The default is to carry. In your case, you made the conscious decision not to carry at work (presumably because it's more important right now to keep food on the table than to make a Constitutional stand and get fired.) You didn't have that consequence to consider after work, so you acted responsibly and put on your holster. That some nitwit posted a sign.... What did they expect to happen?

[video=youtube;ozJTenNzUKM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozJTenNzUKM[/video]

For my part, I say good on you. You handled this well. I do think this would be a good time for a teachable moment from his chief to the officer.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[ATM]

Actually I open carry because I can't carry for work but don't want to remove my gun from my IWB holster. I have decided that the best course of action is to leave my gun in my OWB in my car at work and put it on after work. I was planning on being in the mall for an extended period and hate having my coat. That was the situation. I wasn't trying to stir any pots.

I get it, you were just carrying. What some others will have a problem with is that you didn't make the extra effort to hide it as they do.

For some reason, they think you should carry in a manner fitting their compunction.

 

[churchmouse]

Hey...they shook hands. That has to count for something?

Yup.

 

[Leo]

Cops do not make the laws. They are bound to carry out what their supervisor commands. They are not in a position to debate the finer points of constitutional interpretation. Cops are just a civil employee who do what they are told. In some cases they have a little flexibility, sometimes not. If someone calls in and wants an open carrier removed from their property, and the CO orders an officer to get the guy out of the store, he is bound to do it as peaceably as possible. If you tell the CO you refuse to perform your assignment on grounds of your opinion of the law, you get to become unemployed pretty fast.

Lets not become like Vietnam war protesters hating and abusing the soldiers who were just doing their job, while they kept voting for the politicians who were ordering more action. Le'ts approach the issue by confronting those who have the power and ability to change things. Like the store owners, mall corporations and state legislators. You really cannot morally or ethically put too much blame on the workman with the badge in a lot of these cases.

 

[halfmileharry]

Cops do not make the laws. They are bound to carry out what their supervisor commands. They are not in a position to debate the finer points of constitutional interpretation. Cops are just a civil employee who do what they are told. In some cases they have a little flexibility, sometimes not. If someone calls in and wants an open carrier removed from their property, and the CO orders an officer to get the guy out of the store, he is bound to do it as peaceably as possible. If you tell the CO you refuse to perform your assignment on grounds of your opinion of the law, you get to become unemployed pretty fast.

Lets not become like Vietnam war protesters hating and abusing the soldiers who were just doing their job, while they kept voting for the politicians who were ordering more action. Le'ts approach the issue by confronting those who have the power and ability to change things. Like the store owners, mall corporations and state legislators. You really cannot morally or ethically put too much blame on the workman with the badge in a lot of these cases.

I've QUIT jobs over quality control issues. I wouldn't put out a bad product. I really don't see that much difference if any. Do a good job or find a job you're good at where some don't care about quality of performance.
It's called being a Master Craftsman. Not an apprentice.

 

[AndersonIN]

I get it, you were just carrying. What some others will have a problem with is that you didn't make the extra effort to hide it as they do.

For some reason, they think you should carry in a manner fitting their compunction.

COMPUNCTION???? Does that mean if they don't like how I carry they can stick it up their "compunction"??? If so I agree!

 

[Bunnykid68]

Cops do not make the laws. They are bound to carry out what their supervisor commands. They are not in a position to debate the finer points of constitutional interpretation. Cops are just a civil employee who do what they are told. In some cases they have a little flexibility, sometimes not. If someone calls in and wants an open carrier removed from their property, and the CO orders an officer to get the guy out of the store, he is bound to do it as peaceably as possible. If you tell the CO you refuse to perform your assignment on grounds of your opinion of the law, you get to become unemployed pretty fast.

Lets not become like Vietnam war protesters hating and abusing the soldiers who were just doing their job, while they kept voting for the politicians who were ordering more action. Le'ts approach the issue by confronting those who have the power and ability to change things. Like the store owners, mall corporations and state legislators. You really cannot morally or ethically put too much blame on the workman with the badge in a lot of these cases.

What law was that officer enforcing? Just to clear it up for us ignorant folk.

 

[2A_Tom]

I'm sorry Officer are you an employee of this store?

No.

Did the store management ask you to accost me?

No.

What law have I broken?

Duh... I dunno.

Thank you Officer have a nice day.

 

[printcraft]

I'm sorry Officer are you an employee of this store?

No.

Did the store management ask you to accost me?

No.

What law have I broken?

Duh... I dunno.

Thank you Officer have a nice day.

Yeah, but then you have tidbits like this that cast doubt.

I like guns and always carry but you get guys that want to argue there constitutional rights and all it does is lead to an arrest.

 

[Bunnykid68]

Yeah, but then you have tidbits like this that cast doubt.

Well, officer go ahead and arrest me for not breaking any laws then.

 

[Mark 1911]

if I hadn't seen it we wouldn't be making this call.

I am not clear from what he said whether he was responding to a call, or if he took it upon himself to escort you out of the mall, i.e made the "call" on his own initiative? If someone didn't call in a MWAG, he wouldn't have any reason to be there, would he?

I think most malls have anti-gun policies these days. That's why I just stay out of malls and make an effort to spend my money where people are more gun friendly.

 

[printcraft]

I am not clear from what he said whether he was responding to a call, or if he took it upon himself to escort you out of the mall, i.e made the "call" on his own initiative? If someone didn't call in a MWAG, he wouldn't have any reason to be there, would he?

I think most malls have anti-gun policies these days. That's why I just stay out of malls and make an effort to spend my money where people are more gun friendly.

This ^

If he took it upon himself it is clearly an overstep. Mall policy is NOT THE LAW.

 

[KG1]

Yeah, but then you have tidbits like this that cast doubt.

I like guns and always carry but you get guys that want to argue there constitutional rights and all it does is lead to an arrest.

Howbout this for a compromise officer? I won't "argue" my constitutional rights if you don't try and blow smoke up my keester with bogus information about the law?

 

[maxmayhem]

and this is why i conceal carry

 

[atvdave]

What law was that officer enforcing? Just to clear it up for us ignorant folk.

First off no laws were broken IMO. 2nd the LEO had no business informing gjclark what he thinks the 2a or the LTCH stand for. Now.... The OP did not state if the LEO worked for the mall, store, was called for a MWG, or was just there shopping.


Scenario 1. The LEO was a I'll informed jack ass telling the OP his thoughts about what he thought the 2A, & LTCH stands for if he was there just shopping off duty, with no call from the owner to question the OP.

Scenario 2. The LEO was call to the mall for a MWG. He had to make contact with the OP and see what the issue was.

Scenario 3. The LEO was working off duty for the mall, or store. At that time it was his job to enforce the rules, (not law) of the store, or mall policy.

I think gjclark did the right thing and not make a issue of this at that time. However if you feel the need I would write a letter to the PD dept. the LEO is with and inform them of what the 2A & the LTCH are for and ask for clarification of what the LTCH laws states as if it is a crime to carry a gun into a posted store, or if it's a non-crime and all the LEO, or store employee can do is ask you to leave. Also (if it's a crime) I would ask for the state code.

 

[dmarsh8]

Hmm. I just left a mall I will be avoiding as much as possible, in which I never saw a policy until today after seeing this thread. Their's was posted on the side wall inside the first set of doors also.
Been going there my entire life and never seen it.
Oh well, I prefer online shopping better anyway and I was just tagging along with the folks.