Escorted out of the Glenbrook Mall

[Sarge470]

I found three calls for service at Glenbrook on the date in question, but none involved a weapon complaint. For gjclark, were the individuals wearing any type of uniform, and what time of day did your encounter occur? Not to be a nitpick, but "official looking" leaves something to the imagination, so if you could clear that up for me, I can run with it from there. In the future, it's perfectly okay to ask for identification from anyone who represents himself as an authority figure, whether it's a cop or someone acting on behalf of mall management. If they identify themselves as officers and escalate things or become rude, ask for a supervisor to be sent to the scene to get it sorted out for you.

 

[Roadie]

We have had this same discussion multiple times on INGO, and I could swear we had a couple Attornies post and say that the "NO Gun" sign had to SPECIFICALLY mention Trespass, in order for the sign itself to hold weight of law and that this is why Chuck E Cheese signs are worded exactly that way.

I can't find the post(s) in question, so am I right, or am I experiencing early onset CRS?

 

[JetGirl]

it's perfectly okay to ask for identification from anyone who represents himself as an authority figure,

True! I ask Sarge470 for I.D. just about every time I see him!

 

[Sarge470]

True! I ask Sarge470 for I.D. just about every time I see him!

Yeah, but I always show you the fake one!

 

[Kutnupe14]

Post your answers here - the hijacking is already done. There's no need to bump the other thread.


Or are you just going to use that as an excuse to run away again?

No, I'm saying I'll answer it. I'll bump the thread, just give me a link. You're misrepresented my words before, and your buddy has outright changed one of my posts he quoted. So I don't particularly hold your character in the highest regards. So provide me a link, and I'll answer it in the appropriate thread.

 

[Hammerhead]

We have had this same discussion multiple times on INGO, and I could swear we had a couple Attornies post and say that the "NO Gun" sign had to SPECIFICALLY mention Trespass, in order for the sign itself to hold weight of law and that this is why Chuck E Cheese signs are worded exactly that way.

I can't find the post(s) in question, so am I right, or am I experiencing early onset CRS?

No, you're remembering correctly. I've been in that discussion several times. One in particular that comes to mind involved Church's Chicken.

 

[gjclark]

I found three calls for service at Glenbrook on the date in question, but none involved a weapon complaint. For gjclark, were the individuals wearing any type of uniform, and what time of day did your encounter occur? Not to be a nitpick, but "official looking" leaves something to the imagination, so if you could clear that up for me, I can run with it from there. In the future, it's perfectly okay to ask for identification from anyone who represents himself as an authority figure, whether it's a cop or someone acting on behalf of mall management. If they identify themselves as officers and escalate things or become rude, ask for a supervisor to be sent to the scene to get it sorted out for you.

Yeah it's tough to tell I'm sorry. They were wearing heavy coats so all that was visible were there blue hats, jackets, and pants. They definitely received a call because as I was crossing the good court I saw them coming down the escalator calling on the radio. And then they followed me into JC Penney. I wish now I had gotten more information. Any chance they were somehow staties?

 

[Sarge470]

Anything is possible, but it's pretty unlikely that ISP would be dispatched to a MWAG call in town...they generally dump those calls off on the municipal agencies. Like I said before, we didn't get called on it according to our records. Could you see their shirts under the heavy coats, or were they buttoned up? Also, what kind of hats were they wearing? Most of our guys opt for the navy blue watch cap with a cap shield embroidered on the front. I think the mall guys wear a Stetson or a campaign hat, but I never go there anymore and can't be sure what kind of lids they're wearing these days.

 

[gjclark]

http://www.samilitaria.com/SAM/inde...ticle&id=8037:8037&catid=4:militaria&Itemid=8

It looked really similar to this I guess.

 

[cobber]

Was in a Simon mall yesterday and looked for their sign. White on blue, posted in the entryway, but not on a door.

It's buried in a long "Code of Conduct" sign, along with all sorts of other things one shouldn't do there. It is not conspicuous. It does not state persons violating the CoC are subject to arrest as trespassers, but that a person violating may be asked to leave and warned against returning. It is not specific to firearms, but covers all sorts of weapons that could harm persons.


It does not have a graphic of a firearm with the red circle and diagonal line.

 

[gjclark]

Oh and I couldn't see their shirts. Coat was fully buttoned.

 

[stephen87]

We have had this same discussion multiple times on INGO, and I could swear we had a couple Attornies post and say that the "NO Gun" sign had to SPECIFICALLY mention Trespass, in order for the sign itself to hold weight of law and that this is why Chuck E Cheese signs are worded exactly that way.

I can't find the post(s) in question, so am I right, or am I experiencing early onset CRS?

No, you're remembering correctly. I've been in that discussion several times. One in particular that comes to mind involved Church's Chicken.

So what you're saying is an attorney has weighed in on this and stated that a consequence must be listed for it to hold weight of law?

 

[churchmouse]

Bacon.........

 

[Slawburger]

So what you're saying is an attorney has weighed in on this and stated that a consequence must be listed for it to hold weight of law?

A law with no consequence for noncompliance is still a law, it is just unenforceable.

A sign at the mall

 

[JetGirl]

Yeah, but I always show you the fake one!

If you'd stop lying on your ID about your hair color and eye color and forgetting what you put down...you wouldn't have to keep shaving your head and wearing shades. #HelpfulTip

 

[Expat]

So what you're saying is an attorney has weighed in on this and stated that a consequence must be listed for it to hold weight of law?

I think they are saying that the signage should indicate something along the lines of "no guns allowed, entrance with a gun will constitute trespassing"...
I vaguely remember the post they are talking about.

 

[JetGirl]

I think they are saying that the signage should indicate something along the lines of "no guns allowed, entrance with a gun will constitute trespassing"...
I vaguely remember the post they are talking about.

But what is your LEGAL standing as a carrying citizen if that sign says the equivalent of;

"no guns not allowed,

And I'm serious.
All I've heard so far is "well, it would be assumed what would be meant"...but if you are really hauled in, is that truly good enough? REALLY?

 

[TheSpark]

There is a reason people that no one has ever been charged or convicted in Indiana for not adhereing to a no gun sign, no matter the language. The reason is simple, and I'm going to use caps:

NO GUN SIGNS, NO MATTER THE LANGUAGE, PLACEMENT, ETC, HOLD NO WEIGHT OF LAW IN INDIANA UNLESS THAT LOCATION IS SPECIFICALLY DEFINED AS BEING A GUN FREE ZONE BY INDIANA CODE.

A person can't be legally (resulting in trespassing) denied entry to a private property that is open to the general public (such as a store, etc) for something they have or don't have by a sign alone. For example, a business can place a "no shirt, no shoes, no entry" sign but they can't have you arrested if you proceed. Only by specifically denying YOU (YOUR PERSON) entry can they get you for trespass if you refuse to leave. There is only one sign in Indiana that covers this and that is a blanket: "No Trespassing" sign. You either allow everyone of the general public or you don't. End of story. If you want a specific person to have no such entry you must address them, again their person, specifically. You can't address them with a sign that says if you have this or that or don't have this or that or whatever.

The law people use to incorrectly argue that no gun signs do hold weight of law is destroyed by the first two words in the law "a person".

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

It's been well established that the MALL itself didn't have off duty LEO "on duty" at their part-time gig on the day in question. (Or any Thursdays...ahem.)

Since this took place inside JC Penny - how possible is it that the individual store had their own off-duty LEO doing his part-time gig? Stores, especially big stores like that, can and do have latitude to hire their own outside of what mall mgmnt does, right?

 

[TheSpark]

It's been well established that the MALL itself didn't have off duty LEO "on duty" at their part-time gig on the day in question. (Or any Thursdays...ahem.)

Since this took place inside JC Penny - how possible is it that the individual store had their own off-duty LEO doing his part-time gig? Stores, especially big stores like that, can and do have latitude to hire their own outside of what mall mgmnt does, right?

Possible I'm sure. Although I'm Sears, JCPenny, Macy's at the glenbrook mall all the time and I can't honestly remember ever seeing a uniformed police officer. I'm sure I have but since I can't remember that means they are not there that often and thus probably not employed by them at all. Or if they are they are not in uniform.