Educated a LEO the other day

[ThrottleJockey]

I can't hardly believe that someone would expect the average police officer on duty to know every code/statute and how to apply it to every situation.

There are lawyers making more money than the average police officer and until they pull their books off the shelves, they don't know the law and all its twists and turns.

There are judges on the bench that have to retire to their chambers to verify what they THINK the law is before they rule on cases.

I don't know every law on the books concerning everything that I do and THINK I am doing legally.

I KNOW the IRS tax code applies to me, but I have never read it.
I KNOW IN code on handguns applies to me but I admit I don't know all its ins and outs

If I can't be diligent enough to know the laws that apply to me, I can't get too worked up over an officer not knowing all there is to know. What I do expect is courteous treatment, verification through his chain of command and his actions to be in good faith.

As a non firearms example, on occasion i put a scanner in my car. Under ordinary law, a person can not have a scanner in the car, but if one is an amateur radio license holder, then there is an exemption. I certainly don't expect every LEO to know this, so I keep my license with me and a copy of the applicable law so that if I am ever stopped and the scanner is called into question, I can provide credence to my story that can be verified.

I would expect the LEO to question me, let me produce the license etc and then use his radio to verify I am telling the truth.

You missed at least one of my points. The first being that when an leo is told by his duty officer that no crime has been committed, he should IN GOOD FAITH, admit his mistake rather than play the "I'm a cop so I know the law" card, the second being that NO leo should ever stop, question or harass ANY citizen for ANYTHING he doesn't know the facts about. Nothing pizzes me off more than a know-it-all leo pretending to be superior to me and pretending to automatically know all the laws just because he is a cop and you made that case for me. There is no way any leo can even know a small percentage of the IC based on 16 weeks at ILEA and that is the exact card they play, ILEA. In one conversation I had with an leo about his training, I was supporting him in his call to the duty officer and told him that I didn't expect his 16 weeks to equal full knowledge of the law and he decided to correct me and tell me it wasn't 16 weeks, it was much longer....4 months!!! After LOL I explained to him that 4 months IS 16 weeks.

 

[jsharmon7]

I was supporting him in his call to the duty officer and told him that I didn't expect his 16 weeks to equal full knowledge of the law and he decided to correct me and tell me it wasn't 16 weeks, it was much longer....4 months!!! After LOL I explained to him that 4 months IS 16 weeks.

Next you're going to tell me that ten dimes is equal to four quarters. Everybody knows that ten is more than four. I'm a cop, I know these things.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

But 16 weeks = 112 days. 112 days / 30.5 (average length of month) = 3.67 months. ;-)

And know how the "average" human gestation is usually referred to as 9 months? 9x4 = 36 weeks. BUT... average human gestation is 40 weeks.

Details are sticky when talking weeks / months. ;-)

 

[Boost Lee]

Some way... Some how...

All of these numbers equate to twenty three.

 

[crudolph00]

Just curious...did your friend know you were CC when you were in the store and in his mind, violating the law?

He did, to the best of my knowledge, know that I was CC. Never thought about that point.

A lot of good thoughts on here. I do agree with many of the posters in that I is impossible for every LEO to know every law on the books. And again (although it is no excuse) my friend is a reserve deputy who has not been through ILEA. But I, as the rest of you on this forum, do agree that applicable gun law is a big one. I am very pro LEO (my brother is a sheriff's deputy) and personally have never had a bad run-in with any officer. That being said, I haven't had to deal with any "Holier than thou" officer either. Although, I do know they are out there.

 

[Chase515]

Cops have the right to make up the law as they go in that part of the state. Meth rules! You can be driving to work at 4am and get pulled over with a cop pointing their pistol to your head. Two weeks later the same cop will pull you over on your way to work and still pull his gun! Wtf!

 

[Indy317]

[/B]

Wish the average joe could use an excuse like this......

They do, constantly. A big one is hit and run type incidents. The law is very specific on what actions are to be taken and what information is to be left. Most people who are stand-up enough to leave something still break the law. They use the excuse, and guess what, most don't end up getting arrested.

 

[JetGirl]

If he is a Reserve Sheriff's Deputy, and to the best of his knowledge (at the time),
Carrying a firearm in a place that sells adult beverages...
Why did he knowingly proceed to do so knowing it was illegal?

Nice catch.

 

[foszoe]

You missed at least one of my points. The first being that when an leo is told by his duty officer that no crime has been committed, he should IN GOOD FAITH, admit his mistake rather than play the "I'm a cop so I know the law" card, the second being that NO leo should ever stop, question or harass ANY citizen for ANYTHING he doesn't know the facts about. Nothing pizzes me off more than a know-it-all leo pretending to be superior to me and pretending to automatically know all the laws just because he is a cop and you made that case for me. There is no way any leo can even know a small percentage of the IC based on 16 weeks at ILEA and that is the exact card they play, ILEA. In one conversation I had with an leo about his training, I was supporting him in his call to the duty officer and told him that I didn't expect his 16 weeks to equal full knowledge of the law and he decided to correct me and tell me it wasn't 16 weeks, it was much longer....4 months!!! After LOL I explained to him that 4 months IS 16 weeks.

Throttlejockey,

I wasn't responding to you directly but do see elements of what you are saying in what I am responding to. We have what appears to me to start off with a different assumption on a situational outcome.

In a generic joe officer-joe citizen interaction, I choose to believe that the officer won't play the authority figure more than necessary and would be willing to admit a mistake, and that he really doesn't want to assert superiority to me all that much.

Perhaps this is because we have had different experiences personally or through our circle of friends. I am not naive enough to think the situation would never occur. One only needs to look at the history of race/ethnic issues in our country; irish, italian, black etc. for examples on your side.

I guess I do believe that most of the time the encounters are positive because of experiences such as the following:

Mom and I are driving to Kansas City to visit relatives, our exit is coming up and in a 5 (i think lane road, all but the inner most lane are clogged with a line of cars moving at the same speed. I am in the inner most lane behind one of them at a safe distance, but I need to make my exit so I go to the inside, get on the gas, get past the line of cars cut across 4 lanes (still on the gas but I did do the customary pause and merge, didn't just make a beeline to the side) and just as I hit the exit lane lights come on behind me. Well I stop and my mom is LAUGHING hard enough that it gets a little irritating because she can't stop long enough to tell me why. I roll down the window and have the license and reg. ready. Its a Sheriff and hes LAUGHING. He proceeds to ask the customary questions but then goes down another path.

Sir, did you not see me flash my lights at you when you started coming up behind me

No Sir

Did you not read the word SHERIFF in big letters on the side of the car as you went past me?

No Sir

By now between my mother and the sheriff laughing and me realizing my own stupidity I am feeling pretty humble, embarrassed and sure my face is beet red.

Well he runs all my stuff comes back to the car and says

Well you have a clean record, I was on my way home and didn't really want to stop you but you just didn't want to pay attention to all the warning signs I tried to give you and I couldn't let you get away with it in front of all those other people on the interstate seeing you do it so blatantly in front of me. So anyway next time go to the next exit and turn around or something and pay more attention! I am sure your mother raised you better than this!

With that he walked back to his car and left. I didn't even receive a warning other then the verbal.

This guy did know the law, had me dead center, and.....chose to use his discretion.

I can only surmise it had something to do with I was in his rearview mirror for quite some time and doing nothing stupid so my story of the exit was a plausible one, but I will never know.

I admit though i haven't dealt with police outside of traffic issues, but I did meet an officer once that upset me. I am riding to work on my motorcycle at 4 am through a small town and was pulled over for 28 in a 20 or 38 in a 30 whatever and got a ticket. Only vehicle on the road, motorcycle endorsement newly minted on the license and thought if I was to get a break this would be a time for it, but no he ticketed me. Well I do believe in responsibility for my OWN actions so I was polite. Didn't question him.

When I go to the town hall to pay it, I am told they have no record of it (I didn't carry in the ticket as I DON'T believe in self incrimination

I am told to go to the court date on the ticket. I do that still no record of my name on the list so I am free to go.

Now did I get a little bit of a hassle as far as time and stuff? Yep, but i didn't get the ticket, the points, and wasn't out the money. So I learned my lesson then too. I felt I had caught a break overall and my impression of the guy changed. Sure he let me sweat it out, but in the long run I was happy with the whole affair.

There was another one more firearms related but I figure this post has gone on long enough.

 

[Wwwildthing]

Two words - Constitutional Carry.

 

[Sigasaurus]

ryknoll3 an average person can use an excuse like that. It is called officer discretion. I like to think that I use common sense when making a decision on the street. I am not going out of my way to jam someone up on an obscure violation that I am not even aware of. If I encounter a situation were a violation has happened, and I can in good faith, believe that the person had no idea that he had done something wrong, and it is "victimless" then I am very likely to not take action on it. I and every other LEO do it with traffic law. I could literally enforce every traffic law on the books and write about 50 tickets a day. But I dont want to be like that, and you dont want me to be like that nor does the public. I will take action of things that are blatant, and a safety hazard to other motorist, but I will not be writing tickets for every single thing that I could.

Unfortunately thanks to people being obsessed with law suits and looking for every angle to benefit from the good guys like you makes it hard to use discretion. People are critical in every aspect of LEO's if you are fair and use discretion unfortunately some people prey on your kindness and leniency. It's gotta be tough anymore out there being under the microscope it's good to hear your approach. Big +1!!!

 

[Boost Lee]

Nice catch.

For sure. To be honest, after reading the OP, that was my first thought to come to mind...

Then again, I'm well known to (over) analyze the details in every situation.