Educated a LEO the other day

[crudolph00]

Went up to Terre Haute the other day do visit some friends. I got to do a little shooting with a buddy up there who happens to be a reserve sheriff's deputy. Long story short, after our great day at the range, we decided to have a few adult beverages. While in the adult beverage store, where I was C.C. and he O.C., the clerk was eyeing his sidearm. I mentioned this fact after we made our purchase. My friend then informed me that the reason he was alerted was that carrying a firearm in a establishment that sells alcohol is illegal. I respectfully disagreed with him and informed him of the few places that are off-limits (schools, federal buildings, airports past security). He was very receptive admitting he needed to brush up on the law regarding handgun licenses. All in all, glad I was able to dissolve some of the misconceptions regarding handgun carrying such as in liquor stores, banks, etc.

Any thoughts???

 

[EvilKidsMeal]

 

[Boost Lee]

My only thought and concern to this was wondering....

If he is a Reserve Sheriff's Deputy, and to the best of his knowledge (at the time),
Carrying a firearm in a place that sells adult beverages...
Why did he knowingly proceed to do so knowing it was illegal?

It is a great thing you did inform him... But all in all,
I wish and pray as a standard, all departments make it a non negotiable to understand the in-and-outs of carrying.

 

[jsharmon7]

Went up to Terre Haute the other day do visit some friends. I got to do a little shooting with a buddy up there who happens to be a reserve sheriff's deputy. Long story short, after our great day at the range, we decided to have a few adult beverages. While in the adult beverage store, where I was C.C. and he O.C., the clerk was eyeing his sidearm. I mentioned this fact after we made our purchase. My friend then informed me that the reason he was alerted was that carrying a firearm in a establishment that sells alcohol is illegal. I respectfully disagreed with him and informed him of the few places that are off-limits (schools, federal buildings, airports past security). He was very receptive admitting he needed to brush up on the law regarding handgun licenses. All in all, glad I was able to dissolve some of the misconceptions regarding handgun carrying such as in liquor stores, banks, etc.

Any thoughts???

Good job.

I wish and pray as a standard, all departments make it a non negotiable to understand the in-and-outs of carrying.

Shouldn't it be non-negotiable to understand all laws? Or at least know where to find the resources to find an answer?

 

[GPD177]

We should be able to know all laws but the reality that it would be like trying to memorize a phone book. And the state legislature is always changing things, and the courts are changing things based on new rulings. I have to look stuff up every now and then as well. Most of the "common every day laws" we are good, but every now and then something out of left field comes up.

 

[hoosierdoc]

We should be able to know all laws but the reality that it would be like trying to memorize a phone book. And the state legislature is always changing things, and the courts are changing things based on new rulings. I have to look stuff up every now and then as well. Most of the "common every day laws" we are good, but every now and then something out of left field comes up.

I agree, you want to know everything but you can't. However, things lke carrying a handgun should probably be on the "you should know this" list. Maybe not that it's still legal or not to spit on the ground (I think it's illegal due to TB transmission 90 years ago, but not sure)

 

[ryknoll3]

We should be able to know all laws but the reality that it would be like trying to memorize a phone book. And the state legislature is always changing things, and the courts are changing things based on new rulings. I have to look stuff up every now and then as well. Most of the "common every day laws" we are good, but every now and then something out of left field comes up.

Wish the average joe could use an excuse like this......

 

[youngda9]

If he is a Reserve Sheriff's Deputy, and to the best of his knowledge (at the time),
Carrying a firearm in a place that sells adult beverages...
Why did he knowingly proceed to do so knowing it was illegal?

 

[Hoosierdood]

No offense to you or your friend, but it has been my experience that not all Reserve Deputies make it a point to know the law especially regarding the carrying of firearms. This is unfortunate, because when they are wearing that badge, they are equal to a full fledged Deputy in authority, and some choose to enforce their incorrect understanding of the law.

+1 to you for educating your friend, and hopefully he will brush up on the law that he is responsible to enforce.

 

[GBuck]

My only thought and concern to this was wondering....

If he is a Reserve Sheriff's Deputy, and to the best of his knowledge (at the time),
Carrying a firearm in a place that sells adult beverages...
Why did he knowingly proceed to do so knowing it was illegal?

Becuase he clearly did know HR218 which is the federal law making him exempt from that law. Just like he could carry into a school or in an airport or building with a court in it.

 

[Quad]

We should be able to know all laws but the reality that it would be like trying to memorize a phone book. And the state legislature is always changing things, and the courts are changing things based on new rulings. I have to look stuff up every now and then as well. Most of the "common every day laws" we are good, but every now and then something out of left field comes up.

Wish the average joe could use an excuse like this......

^^^This!

How many times have we been told that ignorance of the law is no excuse?

 

[GPD177]

ryknoll3 an average person can use an excuse like that. It is called officer discretion. I like to think that I use common sense when making a decision on the street. I am not going out of my way to jam someone up on an obscure violation that I am not even aware of. If I encounter a situation were a violation has happened, and I can in good faith, believe that the person had no idea that he had done something wrong, and it is "victimless" then I am very likely to not take action on it. I and every other LEO do it with traffic law. I could literally enforce every traffic law on the books and write about 50 tickets a day. But I dont want to be like that, and you dont want me to be like that nor does the public. I will take action of things that are blatant, and a safety hazard to other motorist, but I will not be writing tickets for every single thing that I could.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Just curious...did your friend know you were CC when you were in the store and in his mind, violating the law?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I've said it before:

The reason that we in the " gun community" would like ALL LEO to know all the ins & outs of the firearms laws are because firearms are our hobby, our interest.

What if this were a forum dedicated to vehicle modification / offroading... We'd then want all LEO to know the ins & outs of the laws regarding vehicle modifications (bumper height, # of headlights allowed to be on/shining, etc)

LEO simply cannot know 100% of the laws / codes for their jurisdiction. It's impossible for anyone, save for the Savants...and they're not going to be LEO.

-J-

 

[Scutter01]

What if this were a forum dedicated to vehicle modification / offroading... We'd then want all LEO to know the ins & outs of the laws regarding vehicle modifications (bumper height, # of headlights allowed to be on/shining, etc)
-

Do a lot of modders get proned out, cuffed, and have guns pointed at them for modding?

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Do a lot of modders get proned out, cuffed, and have guns pointed at them for modding?

I don't know, as I'm not a "modder", nor a moderator.

That doesn't change the fact that no one LEO can know the entirety of the laws in his or her jurisdiction.

 

[IndySSD]

Do a lot of modders get proned out, cuffed, and have guns pointed at them for modding?

I don't know about a "LOT" but I do know my cousins car club (all male occupants of the twenty something cars, females were allowed to stand with their hands on the vehicles) that were caravaning to some car show in TN got roadblocked, guns pointed and proned/cuffed under suspicions of "gang activity" in KY last summer.


Apparently they all (Something like 50 people between 20 something cars) pulled into a small town gas station and the attendant there called in to the state police saying there was some gang that just stopped off in there on their way to "Do Damage" heading southbound on 65.......

Apparently the attendant overheard one of the club members talking about some category for "best club showing" and that "Doing Damage" in their slang at a car show means "Doing well in the category"
.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

I guess if an leo were to harass joe citizen for such an act, it would all be cleared up when he called the duty officer asking for the IC to cite said citizen. He of course would never admit his mistake to "joe", but rather pretend he was letting him off with a warning which is exactly when I would roll my eyes and go about my business as if he didn't even exist.

 

[Sigasaurus]

Sadly enough many of the LEO's are ignorant to the laws and use of firearms.I had a great conversation a month or so ago with a very well informed and knowledgable state policeman and he knew the ins and outs and was more than willing to share. Many of them despise shooting and only operate firearms to qualify and required range time. I guess it just depends on the individual like any other career choice some good some bad.I'm jealous I wish I was required to shoot for my job.

 

[foszoe]

I can't hardly believe that someone would expect the average police officer on duty to know every code/statute and how to apply it to every situation.

There are lawyers making more money than the average police officer and until they pull their books off the shelves, they don't know the law and all its twists and turns.

There are judges on the bench that have to retire to their chambers to verify what they THINK the law is before they rule on cases.

I don't know every law on the books concerning everything that I do and THINK I am doing legally.

I KNOW the IRS tax code applies to me, but I have never read it.
I KNOW IN code on handguns applies to me but I admit I don't know all its ins and outs

If I can't be diligent enough to know the laws that apply to me, I can't get too worked up over an officer not knowing all there is to know. What I do expect is courteous treatment, verification through his chain of command and his actions to be in good faith.

As a non firearms example, on occasion i put a scanner in my car. Under ordinary law, a person can not have a scanner in the car, but if one is an amateur radio license holder, then there is an exemption. I certainly don't expect every LEO to know this, so I keep my license with me and a copy of the applicable law so that if I am ever stopped and the scanner is called into question, I can provide credence to my story that can be verified.

I would expect the LEO to question me, let me produce the license etc and then use his radio to verify I am telling the truth.