Educate me on food storage please!

[the1kidd03]

This is a lot to take in. Thanks for the help with the water! I was researching and they said dont put o2 absorbers with sugar because it will make your sugar turn into a brick. And I was looking into that LDS. Would it be cheap enough to offset the cost of gas? Again, thanks for all the info

That would depend on how much you buy to bring back and your gas mileage. If you only go to buy one bag of each, I doubt it. You could likely get more efficient pricing by hitting your nearest Sam's, Costco, GFS, Walmart, Meijer, etc. If you can afford to and have room to buy a number of bags of each item, it would likely be more worth the trip. I would call them ahead of time to make sure you don't catch them when they're closed and verify available quantities and pricing.

Sugar is one thing that is not vulnerable to common bacteria growth, so it require a little less care than most foods and still stay good. NATURAL honey is another one which doesn't go bad if stored well. It may crystalize, but just heat it up and it's good as new.

 

[88GT]

Ok so it really comes down to variety on meals. So maybe bulk a 5 gallon bag of sugar and oats, but keep meals separated into 1 gallon bags.

One of the reasons I store dry goods in smaller containers is due to the inherent protection it provides against contamination of the stock. Risk of contamination/compromise is for the most part limited to the open container (fire, flood, etc notwithstanding). I'd rather lose a 1lb bag instead of a 5lb bag. Even if I had to deal with a larger group, I would still package in smaller containers. Smaller packages also make it easier to move stores if desired/necessary.

Also, I don't agree with the opinion that food grade buckets are a necessity, though it does depend on HOW you intend on storing the food. If the bucket is the food storage container, then, yes, probably a good idea to have food grade buckets. If, on the other hand, you intend to store in mylar bags, I don't see the need for the added expense. The bucket's contribution to protecting the food from water and air at that point is so negligible relative to the protection the mylar affords, that I simply think it's overkill. The law of diminishing returns, if you will. The bucket becomes a storage device for keeping rodents, etc from accessing the bags as well as convenience in physical storage/stacking. Having said that, I don't think it's wise to use a bucket that's previously contained toxic waste or some other chemical/ingredient that is known to be toxic/harmful/deadly to humans. But I have kitty litter buckets holding some of our stores. Not everyone agrees with me on this, and that's fine. I'm not trying to convince you either way. Rather, my point is more to illustrate that prepping is more than just a store room full of stock. There are many factors, most of which are personal and unique to YOUR situation, that will determine your efforts and where you spend your resources.

So I can make a big batch of chili, vacuum seal it in a jar and store it? How long is the shelf life on canned goods? I am thinking I will buy the keystone meat, bulk store sugar flour oats, and I can can the rest?

A "batch" of chili will net anywhere from 3-5 quart jars, depending on the recipe and how thick you want it to be. Keep that in mind as you will probably want to prepare/preserve several batches. You can also prepare/preserve beef stew, chicken noodle soup, vegetable soup, and many other nutrient-rich all-in-one meals at home. You can also home can meat of all kinds. The limiting factor is usually space. Commercially sealed products in steel cans are probably going to last longer all else being equal, and would therefore be lower on my list of when to eat what. I consider home canned products good for 3-5 years. That's my personal comfort zone with them.

Also, what about long term water storage. I have been saving milk jugs and pop bottles.

I see water storage as a 2-fold issue. On-hand stock for immediate use when needed and the ability to store additional water as it is acquired on a later basis. Either way, water purification is an integral part of water acquisition and storage. This is mostly just food for thought.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned, though admittedly, I did just skim some of the responses, was the personal aspect of food storage. You aren't just storing food for the sake of storing food. There's a purpose to it. And it's deeper than having something on hand when the zombie apocalypse results in empty grocery store shelves. Who are you storing food for? How many people will you need to provide nourishment for on a daily basis? Are you storing for ensuring that daily meals offer as close to current caloric intake as possible, or do you plan to go into immediate rationing of stores, providing just enough calories or so to ensure survival? Or somewhere in between, say lean, but not minimal.

Also, you've got 50lbs of dry goods stored up, but what are you going to do with it? Do you know how to make food items from scratch? Can you turn flour, sugar, and spices into something edible that provides more nutrition than it took you to make it? Will you have a means of cooking what you intend on making? To that end, home canned and similarly prepared all-in-one meals are great to have on hand. While not the most appealing to eat cold, it can be done. And they wouldn't need any more cooking to make them edible.

 

[peberly400]

I never really put it in that aspect. It will be food for 2 adult, one small child. I do know how to make
food from scratch. I am thinking of shifting more effort into canning meals as well. I would like to build a 3 month supply as fast as I can ( time and money constraints), and possibly a six month supply in the future. Space is not so much an issue. I am leaning towards a couple of bulk items, and the rest in pre made meals?

 

[88GT]

I never really put it in that aspect. It will be food for 2 adult, one small child. I do know how to make
food from scratch. I am thinking of shifting more effort into canning meals as well. I would like to build a 3 month supply as fast as I can ( time and money constraints), and possibly a six month supply in the future. Space is not so much an issue. I am leaning towards a couple of bulk items, and the rest in pre made meals?

There's no right or wrong answer. Your priorities, your choices. You make assumptions about what the situation will be like when you have to start using your preps as a primary food/water supply, and start making decisions from there. You can plan for something as catastrophic as Armageddon or as simply has a week of not getting to the grocery store because of a weather event.

The best advice I can give is to read others' approaches to prepping and the rationale behind it. You'll find your place in the continuum and learn to recognize which solutions are a better fit based on that.

 

[the1kidd03]

Like I said, that extra little $20 leftover from your routine grocery runs can go a LONG way REALLY fast when you use coupons, sales, etc. Meijer has certain canned veggies 2/$1 right now for example. They had them 3/$1 a couple weeks ago. I think I got to a pretty descent 3 month supply of stocked food in a matter of half that time or less using this method.

For demonstration, let's say I budget $200 for groceries every 2 weeks when I know that our regular/average grocery bill does not exceed $175. I know I'll almost always have the $25 remaining budget accounted for towards preparation items. If I spend only $150 this time around, since I already counted on not having the entire $200 for anything else, then I actually have $50 to spend on preps this time around which isn't going to hurt me anywhere else in my budget. Just a thought/method I use, but it helps with limited budgets and can add up items quick. We've quickly surpassed our available storage space using this method. Of course, you may only have $10 to dedicate to the budget beyond necessities, or you may have $50. That all depends on your situation.

I would recommend including this into your budget in combination with investing in whatever bulk items you can afford right off the bat (beans, rice, etc.) That initial investment in some bulk items alone would likely grant you the first 3 months you seek. Of course, you will get tired of the same food day in, day out, but that is where you can supplement with what you buy from those little $20 additional budget purchases on a routine basis. At the mentioned prices that's 40 cans of veggies for $20 for example.

It's important to realize that with prepping, it's sort of like a never ending cycle. You will come to the realization that you can ALWAYS find "one more thing" you need to add. That makes it important to prioritize based on the essentials and actual NEED in case something were to happen balanced against what you feel is likely to happen. It's also easy to get sucked into this so deep that you devote everything you have to preparations. When you feel like you're getting overwhelmed, take a step back and remember why you do it. You're prepping to live, not living to prep. Don't let prepping take over other more important things in your life.

 

[the1kidd03]

I am leaning towards a couple of bulk items, and the rest in pre made meals?

I may be misinterpreting what you mean by "pre made meals" however, an entire meal which is pre made and packaged individually tends to take up a lot more space in storage. Something to consider.

Canned goods do as well, but with the long shelf life and relatively low cost with level of variety, I think it's a fair compromise for available space. I don't know that I would make entire meals and package them for storage rather than store plenty of the ingredients to make those things later, depending on the item(s) in question of course.

Another thing to consider in packaging stored items is use. Once you open a container, it does begin to lose integrity (go bad) so it will become more important to consume it in a reasonable amount of time. So, if you know you won't eat green beans but once a month for example, don't buy large #10 cans of them so nothing goes to waste.

 

[88GT]

I may be misinterpreting what you mean by "pre made meals" however, an entire meal which is pre made and packaged individually tends to take up a lot more space in storage. Something to consider.

Canned goods do as well, but with the long shelf life and relatively low cost with level of variety, I think it's a fair compromise for available space. I don't know that I would make entire meals and package them for storage rather than store plenty of the ingredients to make those things later, depending on the item(s) in question of course.

Another thing to consider in packaging stored items is use. Once you open a container, it does begin to lose integrity (go bad) so it will become more important to consume it in a reasonable amount of time. So, if you know you won't eat green beans but once a month for example, don't buy large #10 cans of them so nothing goes to waste.

I assumed he was speaking to food items with multiple ingredients that will satisfy several nutritional needs in one meal. Not necessarily multiple food items packaged together. I think I might have started that line of thinking with my comment that you can get a full meal out of a home canned jar of chili, stew, etc. But I could be wrong.

 

[peberly400]

Well, I actually meant getting chili and canning it with a vacuum sealer. I know a lot of the vacuum sealers have a jar attachment and you can seal your jar foods that way. Is this the same as water bath or pressure cooking canning?

 

[the1kidd03]

Well, I actually meant getting chili and canning it with a vacuum sealer. I know a lot of the vacuum sealers have a jar attachment and you can seal your jar foods that way. Is this the same as water bath or pressure cooking canning?

I don't do my own canning, but it is my understanding that it's the heat in the process of canning which keep the product safe after sealing. I don't know how a canning attachment would work or if it's the same thing.

 

[peberly400]

Ok, so I guess I need a pressure cooker lol

 

[peberly400]

How accurate is that tasty website, I thought oats and flour had a 25 year span? they were only saying 2-5 years

 

[the1kidd03]

How accurate is that tasty website, I thought oats and flour had a 25 year span? they were only saying 2-5 years

Flour is not likely to last that long. Oats depend on what kind of oats. I would recommend going with rolled oats (old fashioned oats.) They do have a 30+ year life span in proper storage.

 

[88GT]

I don't do my own canning, but it is my understanding that it's the heat in the process of canning which keep the product safe after sealing. I don't know how a canning attachment would work or if it's the same thing.

This is correct. It's based on the food's acidity. High acid foods can be successfully heat treated at 1 atmosphere boiling point (212F) because the acid helps prevent the germies from living. But low acid foods require the addition of high pressure to increase the temp to a level where temp alone (220 or 240, something like that, IIRC) kills the germies. PV=nRT Increasing the pressure will increase the temp in a closed system, all other factors remaining unchanged. Simply sealing the food keeps it airtight, but it won't destroy the bacteria.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

This is correct. It's based on the food's acidity. High acid foods can be successfully heat treated at 1 atmosphere boiling point (212F) because the acid helps prevent the germies from living. But low acid foods require the addition of high pressure to increase the temp to a level where temp alone (220 or 240, something like that, IIRC) kills the germies. PV=nRT Increasing the pressure will increase the temp in a closed system, all other factors remaining unchanged. Simply sealing the food keeps it airtight, but it won't destroy the bacteria.

At ~+1 bar/15 psi, a pressure canner will reach 250F.

 

[PistolBob]

Well, I actually meant getting chili and canning it with a vacuum sealer. I know a lot of the vacuum sealers have a jar attachment and you can seal your jar foods that way. Is this the same as water bath or pressure cooking canning?

No. The chili will not be edible within a few months....if that long. You have to heat the stuff to kill the bacteria, just vacuuming out the air won't do it. Many deadly bacteria do not require oxygen to live. Read up about Botulism.

 

[PistolBob]

Ok, so I guess I need a pressure cooker lol

No. You need a pressure CANNER. Same as a pressure cooker, but LARGER...so it can hold many pints, half pints, or quart jars. Get one with a pressure gauge on it and then go read this website from top to bottom.

Complete Guide to Home Canning

Good luck

 

[PistolBob]

This is correct. It's based on the food's acidity. High acid foods can be successfully heat treated at 1 atmosphere boiling point (212F) because the acid helps prevent the germies from living. But low acid foods require the addition of high pressure to increase the temp to a level where temp alone (220 or 240, something like that, IIRC) kills the germies. PV=nRT Increasing the pressure will increase the temp in a closed system, all other factors remaining unchanged. Simply sealing the food keeps it airtight, but it won't destroy the bacteria.

High acid foods like tomatoes need about 12 lbs of pressure for around 15 minutes. Something like green beans needs same pressure for about 45 mins, meats usually need over an hour. I know a lot of people that can tomatoes in a hot water canner instead of a pressure canner....but they bathe them for about an hour. We can EVERYTHING under pressure. Why not.

 

[HeadlessRoland]

High acid foods like tomatoes need about 12 lbs of pressure for around 15 minutes. Something like green beans needs same pressure for about 45 mins, meats usually need over an hour. I know a lot of people that can tomatoes in a hot water canner instead of a pressure canner....but they bathe them for about an hour. We can EVERYTHING under pressure. Why not.

If the tomatoes truly have a low enough pH to qualify as 'high-acid', then they don't need pressure-canned at all. Water bath canning will do true high-acid tomatoes. The problem is that some tomato varieties aren't of a low-enough pH to qualify, and without that acidity, botulism could still develop. I also do not use a dial gauge, as they require yearly calibration and there's really not much difference between 12 psi and 15 psi except for a slight increase in temperature, which has yet to affect quality or taste for anything. Weighted-gauge requires no calibration and will never risk proper sealing. But you're right - whether or not anything needs to be pressure-canned, that is my personal default.

 

[88GT]

High acid foods like tomatoes need about 12 lbs of pressure for around 15 minutes. Something like green beans needs same pressure for about 45 mins, meats usually need over an hour. I know a lot of people that can tomatoes in a hot water canner instead of a pressure canner....but they bathe them for about an hour. We can EVERYTHING under pressure. Why not.

Why? It's not necessary. pH, if below the threshold, can be sufficient to inhibit the production of the botulism toxin. Heat is only required if the pH doesn't meet that threshold. And pressure is only required to get the heat up to levels where botulism is killed. Boiling point at 1 atmosphere isn't sufficient.


But let's put this botulism thing into perspective as well:

United States

In the United States, approximately 154 cases of botulism are reported annually to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Infant botulism accounts for nearly 75% of all botulism cases.
The incidence of foodborne botulism is approximately 24 cases per year. The incidence of wound botulism is 3 cases per year. The incidence of infant botulism is 71 cases per year, with a mean age of 3 months.

I'm not saying you shouldn't pressure can everything, just that it's not necessary.

 

[peberly400]

But pressure canning will allow for longer storage than water bath?