Drug Test to Receive Welfare?

[Chefcook]

I stand corrected. There are some states that limit when and how these tests can be administered. Personally...I have no problem with it. If it's good enough for me, it's good enough for anyone I'm footing the bill for. Once I stop footing the bill...smoke up, drink up, shoot up. No problem.

And you realize you're quoting the ACLU...right??

That's where the info popped up .. I do not advocate welfare I have worked since I was 12 years old and been on my own since I was 16 I have raised 2 children to adulthood and have always taken care of my own. Until this year I have never collected any unemployment or even considered that the need for assistance might be a reality.. I do not drink or use drugs(except for cigarettes) and I have also all my life footed the bill as you say. I believe that if something is wrong we should fix it. I believe the solution is in less government control, so I do not advocate any move that gives the government the power to tell people what they can or cant do rather or not its something I had to do is irrelevant. Smaller government means fewer programs.

 

[public servant]

That's where the info popped up .. I do not advocate welfare I have worked since I was 12 years old and been on my own since I was 16 I have raised 2 children to adulthood and have always taken care of my own. Until this year I have never collected any unemployment or even considered that the need for assistance might be a reality.. I do not drink or use drugs(except for cigarettes) and I have also all my life footed the bill as you say. I believe that if something is wrong we should fix it. I believe the solution is in less government control, so I do not advocate any move that gives the government the power to tell people what they can or cant do rather or not its something I had to do is irrelevant. Smaller government means fewer programs.

And I have no problem giving assistance to those who truly need it. I think you know this is how I feel from some of the discussions you and I have had. But you and I both know that is not how it works in most cases. For millions of people it has become a way of life.

I know a guy and his wife that have been receiving assistance for years. Gov't. assisted housing, food stamps, utility help....and they both drive nearly new cars and both have earned master's degrees while receiving this assistance. Something is wrong with this picture.

From working in Mars Hill for years (and I'm not knocking Mars Hill...it's full of good people that would give you the shirt off their backs) I've come to know lots and lots of completely able-bodied people who receive Medicaid and other gov't. aid that need to get off their asses and get a job. But instead they spend most of their time getting high and watching cartoons. A need is one thing....too damn lazy to get out of bed and do an honest day's work is quite another.

The difference between myself and anyone of the qualified, deserving people that receive assistance is just a few paychecks. But it's time some of these baby-making machines put down the bon-bons, turn off the soap operas and get out and make their own way. And the baby-daddy's need to be held responsible just as well. I hear these guys complain about paying child support....well....you should have kept your pecker in your pants. Why the hell should I be footing the bill for their kids...I raised mine on my own. As much as I despise the current foster care system (gov't. subsidized baby-sitting....too many people in it for just the money), if you can't pay for your own kids, someone will.

I'm just saying....if you truly need the help, no problem. No one should go hungry or do without adequate health-care in this once great nation. But if the case is you just don't want to work....it's time for the free ride to end. And if drug testing helps put a stop to these free-loaders that continue to bilk the system for billions upon billions of dollars a year, then I'm good with it. Again....all personal opinion. Someone here once told me I have a messed up set of values...so what do I know.

 

[hoosiertriangle]

I've learned to vehemently disagree and still be respectful. I'd suggest you do the same. This type of expression crosses a line in my book and looks badly on you and your institution of higher learning. Please do better next time.

I only read the first 30 posts or so, but I just wanted to give this to space turtle:

[OFFESIVE EMOTICON DELETED]

And this to ATFConsumer:



This is you and me, ATF:

 

[ATF Consumer]

When I closed up shop with in 4 weeks my most of my gray hair went a way. They say most millionaires filled bankruptcy at least once. The higher up you go the harder you have work. I hope things turn around for you we need more small business owners like you. I have had 2 business both some what successful for a while. I will try it again with out fear of failure because being your own boss is the best work anyone could have. God Bless

Thanks USMC...I know I have some gray hair, but I shave my head eveyday, so I really don't know exactly how bad off it is.

I tried to rep you, but it said I must spread some love first.

 

[jeremy]

I tried to rep you, but it said I must spread some love first.

Rep'd him for you!

 

[Chefcook]

And I have no problem giving assistance to those who truly need it. I think you know this is how I feel from some of the discussions you and I have had. But you and I both know that is not how it works in most cases. For millions of people it has become a way of life.

I know a guy and his wife that have been receiving assistance for years. Gov't. assisted housing, food stamps, utility help....and they both drive nearly new cars and both have earned master's degrees while receiving this assistance. Something is wrong with this picture.

From working in Mars Hill for years I've come to know lots and lots of completely able-bodied people who receive Medicaid and other gov't. aid that need to get off their asses and get a job. But instead they spend most of their time getting high and watching cartoons. A need is one thing....too damn lazy to get out of bed and do an honest day's work is quite another.

The difference between myself and anyone of the qualified, deserving people that receive assistance is just a few paychecks. It's time some of these baby-making machines put down the bon-bons, turn off the soap operas and get out and make their own way. And the baby-daddy's need to be held responsible just as well. I hear these guys complain about paying child support....well....you should have kept your pecker in your pants. Why the hell should I be footing the bill for their kids. As much as I despise the current foster care system (gov't. subsidized baby-sitting....too many people in it for just the money), if you can't pay for your own kids, someone will.

I'm just saying....if you truly need the help, no problem. But if the case is you just don't want to work....it's time for the free ride to end. And if drug testing helps put a stop to these free-loaders that continue to bilk the system for billions and billions of dollars a year, then I'm good with it. Again....all personal opinion.

I agree with everything you are saying here. I just don't believe that drug testing is the answer. And even before we conquer this issue a larger issue is the illegal and Mexican immigrants in this country. I some years ago had a legal Mexican immigrant working for me (non citizen but legal) and I was angry that I couldn't afford to take my son to see a doctor. He didn't understand my dilemma as it is their common practice to just go to the emergency room and then never pay the bill. If you wanna start somewhere with dealing with welfare, deny it to anyone that is not a citizen. That should take about half of the recipients off the rolls. The real draw on our social services is from people like this and that is why they come here they know they can play the system and take advantage of it. We will pay for them to have their babies and to educate and feed them while they give nothing back in the form of taxes they get more back from income tax than they pay in, and send half of what they earn back to Mexico. I have known many people like this that live far better than I do and for no reason other than they take advantage of the system set in place to help us if we were to need it.

Take care of Americans and America first. No immigrant or non citizen should be allowed to work or receive medical services as long as there is an American born citizen out of a job and without health care, just enacting a law like this would open up a million or more jobs for citizens that are struggling to find work and lower the cost of medical care. I am a classically trained four star mobile rated chef with 30 years experience and I cant find a job. I have been laid off since last July. This is all I have ever done and its all I know how to do and there's just nothing out there. I would happily take a position as even a cook for $12 an hour but no one will hire me because I am over qualified and why hire some middle aged dude for $12 or $14 an hour when you can hire a Mexican for $7 an hour. So I thought ok maybe I need to go back to school and learn to do something else. I cant seem to do that because I cant afford the tuition and there is no assitance available for a person in my situation.

I just believe we need to look at the real issues. The passive invasion we have expirienced over the last 10 or 15 years is what poses the greatest threat our security and economic viability.

 

[jeremy]

Take care of Americans and America first. No immigrant or non citizen should be allowed to work or receive medical services as long as there is an American born citizen out of a job and without health care, just enacting a law like this would open up a million or more jobs for citizens that are struggling to find work and lower the cost of medical care.

You had me up to this point right here. My family came here as immigrants, my wife is a German Citizen who has absolutely no desire to be an American. We followed all the hoops and tricks that the system has you do to acquire the needed documents. By all means punish the illegals, hell I'll even help you with that. But the people who go though the system to come here by the rules and that live by the rules, leave them alone they have already put up with plenty of crap.

 

[USMC_0311]

Hey Chefcook how close are you to Hoosier Park my daughter is a chef there and she says they are hiring qualified people. Let me know if you have any interest and I will call her this week end. I am very proud of her, we sent her to a culinary school in Pittsburg, she graduated and is making a good honest living. I still think she puts in to many hours but you got to love the dedication.

 

[Chefcook]

You had me up to this point right here. My family came here as immigrants, my wife is a German Citizen who has absolutely no desire to be an American. We followed all the hoops and tricks that the system has you do to acquire the needed documents. By all means punish the illegals, hell I'll even help you with that. But the people who go though the system to come here by the rules and that live by the rules, leave them alone they have already put up with plenty of crap.

I remember from grammar School what is required to become a citizen. You have to learn our history and our language (you have to know the name of every president and be able to recite them) and pass a test that most natural born Americans would be hard pressed to pass. Then you have to take an oath of citizenship. Anyone that follows these steps and gains citizenship is ok in my book. I am guessing the person that couldn't speak English well enough to take my order at burger king the other day has not done any of this nor will they ever..

When I was in Germany the first thing I was told is don't get sick while you are here they will not treat you at a hospital unless its life threatening because your not a citizen... And I am not referring to immigrants that follow the rules and pay their own way. I assure you they are the minority..We do not have millions of German immigrants raping our social services and working illegally.

 

[jeremy]

I went to the Krankenhaus, not to be confused with the Krakenhaus, in germany a couple of times better care than I could receive at my TMC.

When dealing with laws you have to spell it out for a 4 year old. Trust me I am up here around the auto industry (we refer to it as Little Mexico). Illegal immigration is definately a nut that needs crushed alongside of Welfare.

 

[Chefcook]

Hey Chefcook how close are you to Hoosier Park my daughter is a chef there and she says they are hiring qualified people. Let me know if you have any interest and I will call her this week end. I am very proud of her, we sent her to a culinary school in Pittsburg, she graduated and is making a good honest living. I still think she puts in to many hours but you got to love the dedication.

I am in greenwood but for a job that offers adequate compensation I don't have any problem commuting. I drove from Kokomo to Indy for 3 years until I finally moved here. People always underestimate what it takes to be a chef. It takes more dedication and longer hours than most would be willing to put forth especially for the compensation you receive in return. To be a chef a real chef you have to be passionate about what you do the reward is more in what you create than in the money you make. In my culinary career I generally make around $50000 a year but I also work between 60 and 70 hours a week to earn that. If you will send me your Email I will send you my resume and be appreciative if you can pass it on....

 

[Chefcook]

I went to the Krankenhaus, not to be confused with the Krakenhaus, in germany a couple of times better care than I could receive at my TMC.

When dealing with laws you have to spell it out for a 4 year old. Trust me I am up here around the auto industry (we refer to it as Little Mexico). Illegal immigration is definately a nut that needs crushed alongside of Welfare.

That is my point the two go hand in hand its all these people that have stretched the system to its limit. Now I am not saying there are not natural born Americans that abuse the system there are but they would be much less noticeable if we took a couple million off the rolls that shouldn't be eligible anyway...

 

[jeremy]

If you stomp on the neck of one snake to kill it you might as well stomp on the other at the same time.

I personally despise welfare more than illegal immigration. Growing up my brother and I were hunting for the table probably since we were school age. Mom and Dad working insane hours to provide. We did not have a lot of material items oh well. We did have a whole lot of pride. It used to be what an American lived and died by, his pride!

 

[Chefcook]

If you stomp on the neck of one snake to kill it you might as well stomp on the other at the same time.

I personally despise welfare more than illegal immigration. Growing up my brother and I were hunting for the table probably since we were school age. Mom and Dad working insane hours to provide. We did not have a lot of material items oh well. We did have a whole lot of pride. It used to be what an American lived and died by, his pride!

No solution is perfect and there is always an exception to the rule. I have had immigrants working for me that were awesome God fearing family orientated hard working honest and honorable people. I do not suggest penalizing these folks at all in any way. People like this should and probably will follow the rules and become contributing upstanding citizens and welcome members of the community. But like I said this is the minority not the majority....

 

[spasmo]

I only read the first 30 posts or so, but I just wanted to give this to space turtle:

[removed the icon]

Please be a little respectful. That was unnecessary especially since you didn't back it up with any comment of your own.

 

[Turtle]

Do any of you not get the Idea that with you give them an inch they take a mile. This is how we loose freedoms..... we compromise, and we give up our rights. Thats part of the trick, they make it something we support. Soon they will be drug testing every one on random... They are slowly taking things away and they are using people like you who scream take my freedom as long as it hurts some on I dont like.
Lets say they get rid of welfare..... Do you think they will give back your precious tax money? Do you think that taxes will go down? Hell no. They wont let go of a dime..... mater of fact they will prolly raise taxes more for some reason that may sound good for 10 seconds.

Welfare is nothing compared to what we give to people from other countrys seeking sanctuary..... I seen it on hanity or glen beck.... average welfare and foodstamp recipient gets like 1150 or so combined..... but for the imagrants from other countrys they get around 2500..... call there friends and live together each one getting 2500...... they use this money to buy our houses and our businesses. Invite more friends 4 people = 10000 a month I think this is a bigger problem than welfare. If yall wanna act like a bunch of commies then atleast pick the biggest problem 1st...... we are giving this country away and we have turned blind to it.

 

[Turtle]

Eventually you wont be able to do anything without being drug tested.
Life will be like pooping in public. A camera on every corner, No guns (atleast for law abiding citizens) No cigaretts, no alchohol,And who knows maybe you will get a ticket fo cussing. And even higher taxes to pay for these things. Man life will be great when Obama saves us from ourselves.

Then the poor can live in special areas or camps just for them. They get free medicine as long as we get to run tests on them like lab rats. There will be so many no one will notice when they are killed for there organs.

Life will be so good for the rich when this happens they can live forever on the backs of suffering masses. They get the organs and the benifits of human test subjects for there medical reasearch. In return they trickle a lil money down for feeding these poor and unfortunate (slaves). I mean who wants organs from crack heads right? So they must be kept drug free. and just healthy enough for slaughter just like CATTLE.

I know sounds far fetched but I see it comming.

And I repeat!

 

[JetGirl]

A lot is being made of the idea to make welfare recipients take a urine test before receiving their checks. Many people here seem to think this is a great idea. I’d be inclined to agree if we were talking about a private business who can absolutely do what they want…but we’re not. We’re talking about the government.

I'm about to take an unpopular position, but recently I've had a lot of practice and I'm getting used to it... so bear with me;

I do have a problem with the government testing people in exchange for money. I think it sets a precedent that will be the most slippery of slippery slopes.
It's a spring board into drug testing to get your tax returns back...and after that, maybe testing a full panel screen for the same.
Cholesterol/weight too high? No tax return for YOU. You might spend it on junk food. We'll give you the products we think you need instead.
Nicotine addiction? No return for YOU! You might smoke it up in public causing second hand smoke victims and straining the public health care system. We're spending it on a 12 step program for you.
See where I'm going with that?

By the way, an FYI is in order:
I do not smoke, do not do drugs, do not drink more than a six pack a year, never had an abortion, etc.
I do not advocate anyone else doing these things...but I'm not about to put a gun to your head in the name of the state and tell you that you can't do them either.

 

[HICKMAN]

I believe that if something is wrong we should fix it. I believe the solution is in less government control, so I do not advocate any move that gives the government the power to tell people what they can or cant do rather or not its something I had to do is irrelevant. Smaller government means fewer programs.

I think most people argue FOR the drug test because they (and I) think it will disqualify people from getting the benefits.

But you are right, we need less government. The welfare problem should be fixed without relying on drug testing people.

 

[Roadie]

A lot is being made of the idea to make welfare recipients take a urine test before receiving their checks. Many people here seem to think this is a great idea. I’d be inclined to agree if we were talking about a private business who can absolutely do what they want…but we’re not. We’re talking about the government.

I'm about to take an unpopular position, but recently I've had a lot of practice and I'm getting used to it... so bear with me;

I do have a problem with the government testing people in exchange for money. I think it sets a precedent that will be the most slippery of slippery slopes.
It's a spring board into drug testing to get your tax returns back...and after that, maybe testing a full panel screen for the same.
Cholesterol/weight too high? No tax return for YOU. You might spend it on junk food. We'll give you the products we think you need instead.
Nicotine addiction? No return for YOU! You might smoke it up in public causing second hand smoke victims and straining the public health care system. We're spending it on a 12 step program for you.
See where I'm going with that?

By the way, an FYI is in order:
I do not smoke, do not do drugs, do not drink more than a six pack a year, never had an abortion, etc.
I do not advocate anyone else doing these things...but I'm not about to put a gun to your head in the name of the state and tell you that you can't do them either.

While I see your point, the fine line difference here is that people that are on welfare, AND on drugs are doing so illegally. If they make the other vices you posted illegal, then yes, we would be on a slippery slope.

A welfare recipient who does illegal drugs, would more than likely not NEED welfare if they weren't spending money on drugs! I do think it is ridiculous that someone on welfare would also spend $50 a week on cigarettes, but they are legal at this point.

Tax refunds are a bad example too. That is not the government giving you something back you didn't earn. A tax refund is a balancing of accounts.

I am torn between saying "test them, if they are on drugs, cut em off" but I realize that this affect their children as well. I guess what I am saying is, I don't know the answer! lol