Downtown Indy Riots/damage overnight...

[churchmouse]

When looking for someone to blame for your problems, we should look in the mirror first. We get the government we elect. If we want different results, we have to behave differently. If we want a different sort of police department and we keep voting for the same types of people that created it, it's on us. But as humans, we usually don't want to blame ourselves, it's always someone else's fault.

Oh I hold myself responsible for not stepping up years ago when I saw some of this beginning but like so many of us with white privilege I and the spouse were working our butt's off and raising a family. Actually 2 familys as we got my kids from the 1st mistake I made and we finished raising those 3 as well. No time to do what we should have done. At least we did not take that time so yes, who I see in the mirror is in part responsible.

Didn't see that coming did you.....

 

[T.Lex]

I can’t help then. If and when they give an actionable list and not just another “we need a seat at the table”, we can probably find some common ground.

The idea that a group needs to submit a list of action items reflects the idea that there is an us v. them division.

To be part of the solution IMHO means to be part of the conversation that creates the actionable list. That's where the common ground is found, in the conversation about what's wrong and whit might be done about it. Within any organization - like a community - that will be more effective in the long run than a set of demands nailed to a door.

(That's for you Jetta. By the way, this pool is yours, at least for awhile.)

 

[DadSmith]

Guys look at the high school drop out rate for each race and then look at the stats for percentage of felons per race. It seems the dropout rate is similar to the felony rate per race. Maybe we need to invest in education a lot more. Also push education propaganda to make children want it and it becomes the cool thing to have.

 

[jamil]

When looking for someone to blame for your problems, we should look in the mirror first. We get the government we elect. If we want different results, we have to behave differently. If we want a different sort of police department and we keep voting for the same types of people that created it, it's on us. But as humans, we usually don't want to blame ourselves, it's always someone else's fault.

But when did you make a wrong choice? Who else could you have voted for that would have made the change you wanted? We don't really have a system that is conducive to change. But also, we don't all agree on what changes are necessary. I just don't follow this line of reasoning that there's such a thing as collective guilt. Blame should be purposeful. If there's something or someone to blame, that's informative towards a solution. You blame "us", that's just not conducive to change. It's just tsk-tsking at some nebulous collective self-deprecation.

When you say "we" don't want to blame "ourselves", you're not really saying that you personally have this responsibility for blaming yourself but you just won't, or I have this personal responsibility to blame myself but I just won't. Because when you putting it in collective terms it puts that possibility out of reach. YOU can't change US. I can't change US. You can only change you, and I can only change me. Collective blame is pointless. Individual blame is useful.

Okay, so now if we're talking about individual responsibility and blame, what choice did you make that should be corrected. Who did you vote for that put us into this mess. Did you have a choice that would have made any difference? Or did you make the best choice of the available choices at the time? And if you did that, are you to blame for the outcome? I held my nose and voted for Trump. I tried to have a different choice. I was outvoted. So there we were. Trump or Clinton or "I promise not to smoke pot while campaigning" Mr feel my Johnson. Given that, I voted for Trump, the evil, but least evil according to my priorities.

I'll state it again for emphasis. Collective blame is pointless. If there's a blame to be made, it's that we don't have a system which sums up the collective will from across the political spectrum and resolves it to a precise point. And I'm not sure that would be best suited for society anyway. The geometric placement would be milquetoast which most people seem not to like.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Guys look at the high school drop out rate for each race and then look at the stats for percentage of felons per race. It seems the dropout rate is similar to the felony rate per race. Maybe we need to invest in education a lot more. Also push education propaganda to make children want it and it becomes the cool thing to have.

Look at the dropout rates in comparison to children with 1 parent rates. Homes with 2 parents tend to do better in academics and usually stay out of trouble with the law. It all starts at home.

 

[jamil]

Guys look at the high school drop out rate for each race and then look at the stats for percentage of felons per race. It seems the dropout rate is similar to the felony rate per race. Maybe we need to invest in education a lot more. Also push education propaganda to make children want it and it becomes the cool thing to have.

Adults trying to make kids think that responsibility is kool looks like something that approaches retarded. Please remember when you were young and how lame your teachers were who tried that. Just stop. Kids' pop culture determine what is cool. It can be influenced by adults, but it can't be determined by adults. You're not one of them.

 

[churchmouse]

Adults trying to make kids think that responsibility is kool looks like something that approaches retarded. Please remember when you were young and how lame your teachers were who tried that. Just stop. Kids' pop culture determine what is cool. It can be influenced by adults, but it can't be determined by adults. You're not one of them.

Think about the Charlie brown episodes on TV. His interactions with the teachers. That is what hey hear unless they actually want to hear. It is all white noise.

Oh crap I said "White"...…...am I a racist now. Or again. Or some more.

 

[T.Lex]

Think about the Charlie brown episodes on TV. His interactions with the teachers. That is what hey hear unless they actually want to hear. It is all white noise.

Oh crap I said "White"...…...am I a racist now. Or again. Or some more.

Its probably a good thing you didn't say "pink noise" (which is actually a thing). Not sure what that would've made you!

 

[DadSmith]

Adults trying to make kids think that responsibility is kool looks like something that approaches retarded. Please remember when you were young and how lame your teachers were who tried that. Just stop. Kids' pop culture determine what is cool. It can be influenced by adults, but it can't be determined by adults. You're not one of them.

Well then more influencing. I really think education could change a lot of people. Even just a high school diploma. Going to have to get the parents or parent to actually be a parent.

 

[churchmouse]

Its probably a good thing you didn't say "pink noise" (which is actually a thing). Not sure what that would've made you!

Good thinking.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

When looking for someone to blame for your problems, we should look in the mirror first. We get the government we elect. If we want different results, we have to behave differently. If we want a different sort of police department and we keep voting for the same types of people that created it, it's on us. But as humans, we usually don't want to blame ourselves, it's always someone else's fault.

We get the government we elect...exactly.

What sort of electorate makes someone like Lori Lightfoot their mayor? Or a city council like the one in Minneapolis where a MAJORITY of its members have stated publicly that they want to eliminate the entire concept of policing?

During my law enforcement career I dealt with a hard core of inner city dwellers who were not only totally uncivilized, there was no possibility of them ever becoming civilized, beings who were willing to kill another of their number for something as trivial as laughing at someone's shoes. And they raise new generations that are just like themselves. When this group reaches the point where they become the voting majority a city becomes beyond redemption. We all know which cities these are. And now that we're seeing elected officials in cities that are not yet lost kowtowing to the demands of this thug faction and throwing cops under the bus just for performing routine duties I don't know where this will end up.

The backbone of law enforcement is in self-initiated activity by officers, not by answering radio calls. A cop running a beat is constantly looking and digging for anyone who has committed a crime and especially who may be planning one. As long as he knows that he has the backing of his citizens and police administration he will put himself out there and expose himself to any level of danger to accomplish this. But as soon as he knows that he is on his own out there, or worse, that he'll be used as a sacrificial lamb by ass-kissing cowardly politicians all such activity ceases and crime will skyrocket.

Decent people who live in these cities have two choices. Either take their families and flee to somewhere where sanity still prevails, or remain and live in terror as elected gangsters pledge their allegiance to the criminal element in order to buy their votes.

Personally, what I'd like to see is for police to simply to grant these politicians what they want. Just eliminate policing in these areas altogether and allow this element to plunder, murder and victimize among itself without interference, with the only role of the police being to keep it contained so that civilized people are unaffected by it.

 

[foszoe]

I would expand the conversation beyond voting to being politically active for what we believe, including financial contributions. Being an advocate for what we believe in our communities in a positive manner and that means going to meetings with groups we don't agree with in order to better understand their concerns and express disagreements with them.

But when did you make a wrong choice? Who else could you have voted for that would have made the change you wanted? We don't really have a system that is conducive to change. But also, we don't all agree on what changes are necessary. I just don't follow this line of reasoning that there's such a thing as collective guilt. Blame should be purposeful. If there's something or someone to blame, that's informative towards a solution. You blame "us", that's just not conducive to change. It's just tsk-tsking at some nebulous collective self-deprecation.

When you say "we" don't want to blame "ourselves", you're not really saying that you personally have this responsibility for blaming yourself but you just won't, or I have this personal responsibility to blame myself but I just won't. Because when you putting it in collective terms it puts that possibility out of reach. YOU can't change US. I can't change US. You can only change you, and I can only change me. Collective blame is pointless. Individual blame is useful.

Okay, so now if we're talking about individual responsibility and blame, what choice did you make that should be corrected. Who did you vote for that put us into this mess. Did you have a choice that would have made any difference? Or did you make the best choice of the available choices at the time? And if you did that, are you to blame for the outcome? I held my nose and voted for Trump. I tried to have a different choice. I was outvoted. So there we were. Trump or Clinton or "I promise not to smoke pot while campaigning" Mr feel my Johnson. Given that, I voted for Trump, the evil, but least evil according to my priorities.

I'll state it again for emphasis. Collective blame is pointless. If there's a blame to be made, it's that we don't have a system which sums up the collective will from across the political spectrum and resolves it to a precise point. And I'm not sure that would be best suited for society anyway. The geometric placement would be milquetoast which most people seem not to like.

 

[JettaKnight]

Guys look at the high school drop out rate for each race and then look at the stats for percentage of felons per race. It seems the dropout rate is similar to the felony rate per race. Maybe we need to invest in education a lot more. Also push education propaganda to make children want it and it becomes the cool thing to have.

I got a ton of work to do today... but I remembered something I wanted to post...


INGO's big on the idea that schools are liberal indoctrination mills, but I simply have to share this one anecdote.


My wife was watching a horrible potato video - taken by a guy holding his phone on his computer screen, but something caught my eye. I don't have time to find it here, but one user posted a conspiracy theory that the cops arresting Floyd were actors, and they were at Sandy Hook, etc.

Anywho, I asked my wife where she got this video... "Oh, a teacher sent it to me."

 

[2A_Tom]

Adults trying to make kids think that responsibility is kool looks like something that approaches retarded. Please remember when you were young and how lame your teachers were who tried that. Just stop. Kids' pop culture determine what is cool. It can be influenced by adults, but it can't be determined by adults. You're not one of them.

I never told my kids that responsibility was cool. I just went to work came home dirty and paid my bills. I put a roof over their head, clothes on their back and food in on the table.

They are all hard workers in intact families.

One went crazy as a teen, but that is on her. She has settled down now.

 

[Alpo]

Guys look at the high school drop out rate for each race and then look at the stats for percentage of felons per race. It seems the dropout rate is similar to the felony rate per race. Maybe we need to invest in education a lot more. Also push education propaganda to make children want it and it becomes the cool thing to have.

Not an adequate comparison, methinks.

Compare whatever variable you want against poverty. Or stratify it if you desire to exclude the wealthiest segment of the population that skews the curve.

 

[Route 45]

IMPD was accepting bottles of water from "supporters" during the disturbances downtown. I don't think that's a good idea going forward. I know people want to help, but one should not underestimate the evil out there...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/national-guard-soldiers-found-glass-in-pizza

 

[KellyinAvon]

IMPD was accepting bottles of water from "supporters" during the disturbances downtown. I don't think that's a good idea going forward. I know people want to help, but one should not underestimate the evil out there...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/national-guard-soldiers-found-glass-in-pizza

I can't even... people who are keeping you and your business safe, and these ****bags TRY TO KILL THEM. I'm going to stop typing, too angry.

 

[Trigger Time]

IMPD was accepting bottles of water from "supporters" during the disturbances downtown. I don't think that's a good idea going forward. I know people want to help, but one should not underestimate the evil out there...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/national-guard-soldiers-found-glass-in-pizza

They were early on warned against getting food in the area. Or accepting anything from protestors.

 

[Cameramonkey]

OK....the actual % of peaceful folks stopping the fools is not actually enough to make much of a difference..

Yes there are some solid folks out there stepping up when the needs arise but overall not a lot is done because a lot of those carrying signs could give 2 s

And not all of the peaceful ones are truly peaceful. I read a VERY interesting article regarding the tactics used by Antifa to lay siege to that part of Seattle that allowed them to take over; One of the tactics was the violent ones would throw crap, then "non violent" ones would move forward and be a human shield. Since the throwers were now obscured and those in front were not "doing anything wrong" police wouldnt fire on them with the various crowd control devices.

This is a great breakdown. Probably should be required reading (or at least strongly suggested) for LEO brass moving forward.

https://crimethinc.com/2020/06/10/the-siege-of-the-third-precinct-in-minneapolis-an-account-and-analysis

 

[Tombs]

IMPD was accepting bottles of water from "supporters" during the disturbances downtown. I don't think that's a good idea going forward. I know people want to help, but one should not underestimate the evil out there...

https://www.foxnews.com/us/national-guard-soldiers-found-glass-in-pizza

Yeah, I was concerned about the fact IMPD was willing to accept stuff.

If I was a cop, I don't care how much someone seems to like me, I don't think I'd be ingesting anything donated to the department. After that tylenol scare years ago, stuff like that has always seemed sketchy.