Don't Flinch

[inchrisin]

I'm a new shooter and I'm sure that I flinch. My grouping is about 10 inches at 21 feet. I shoot a 357 J frame snubbie with 125gr ammo. It's about all the hotter I want to go with my round. I'm getting better and they all hit the paper. There isn't much consistency to the group. Time to tweak.


I'm curious to know how you practice NOT flinching. I practice dry-firing and want to make sure that this carries over into live ammo. It seems like the best mentality is to take a good stance, work on the front sight, and let the ammo run its course. I guess I see it more like the ammo works me, rather than I work the ammo. My job it to reset. If I want to get faster at shooting, I have to get faster at resetting--not at trying to prevent recoil by muscling through the shot.


I guess this thread could have gone in any forum, but I think that flinching has the biggest impact on shooting a pistol. Maybe I'll rethink this after firing a 30-06 or a BMG at the horizon.


Thoughts?

 

[pudly]

Flinching is a definite problem that you need to get past. The body naturally reacts to sudden, loud noises and dry fire won't get you there. Dry fire is still quite valuable, but not for overcoming flinching. You can verify flinching by putting one empty case in with the live rounds and spinning the cylinder so that you don't know which one it will be. Then try firing and see how you move the gun even when there is no recoil. Ideally, the gun shouldn't move at all, but probably you are jerking it around trying to compensate for the recoil you are expecting.

I honestly have no advice other than to work through it. This is why we often advise newbies to start with .22s. They have virtually no recoil and you can get used to the noise before associating it compensating for recoil.

 

[indiucky]

Get a J frame .22 and practice with it...Towards the end of the practice session get your .357 J frame carry piece out and put a couple of cylinders full of your carry load down range....Switch back to the .22 for another 20 rounds or so and then go home....

 

[SSGSAD]

There are several ways ..... Have someone else load you revolver, and leave a chamber EMPTY .....

Have them "spin" the cylinder, and close it, and hand it to you .....

You then proceed to shoot, when you hit the empty cyl, you will see the flinch .....

Also, use a .22, or buy .38 and get used to your gun .....

I would be more than happy to help, in any way I can .....

 

[Hopper]

OP, I wrestled with flinching mightily when I was a new shooter. Pudly said it... your body DOES naturally react to sudden, loud noises. And, historically, I *hate* loud, sudden noises!

The best investment I made in any of the gear I have was a Laser Target, and appropriate laser cartridges, for dry fire practice. It turned my basement into an indoor range, perfect for rainy days or winter practice. Over time, I devleoped pretty good trigger control, which translated into muscle memory, and now nary a hint of flinching with live ammo. Strangely enough, I almost did a complete flip from when i was new to shooting... instead of anticipating the BOOM, I began looking forward to it, as I finally developed confidence I would hit what I was aiming at.

 

[96firephoenix]

Don't expect tight groups out of a snubbie revolver. Especially if you are shooting double action.

that said, 10" at 7 yards is a little loose. I would examine your grip and make sure that you are not limp-wristing. it is much more apparent on a semi-auto, as it will start failing to function if you have a loose grip.

Is your snubby fitted with a laser sight? I have found that to be a very useful tool in training against limp-wristing and flinching. Basically ignore the sights and watch the laser as you shoot. It should not move until the round fires, then it should go roughly straight up and back down. Movement prior to the round firing is flinching, and wild dancing on recoil is a limp-wristed grip.

I'm by no means an expert handgunner, but hopefully this helps.

 

[IndyGlockMan]

practice with 38 loads
use the empty cylinder technique
dry fire practice at home
practice every week - can't just shoot a couple boxes every now and then and call it good.

for fun, load up with 38's but toss in 1 357, spin the cylinder and close it... I call it "find the 357".
It's a fun little game and shows the power difference between the 2 loads in a highly effective & entertaining manner.

 

[WebSnyper]

Get a J frame .22 and practice with it...Towards the end of the practice session get your .357 J frame carry piece out and put a couple of cylinders full of your carry load down range....Switch back to the .22 for another 20 rounds or so and then go home....

This is what I do with my semi auto's. I have a 22 conversion kit on one of my Glock frames. I shoot it a bit to get my mechanics in shape, then switch to the larger caliber gun, then back. It seems to calm down any jitters and get you to thinking about your mechanics and getting on target without a bunch of recoil, loud noise and muzzle flash. All of which a 357 snubbie loaded with 125 grain ammo will have in good quantity.

There are several ways ..... Have someone else load you revolver, and leave a chamber EMPTY .....

Have them "spin" the cylinder, and close it, and hand it to you .....

You then proceed to shoot, when you hit the empty cyl, you will see the flinch .....

Also, use a .22, or buy .38 and get used to your gun .....

I would be more than happy to help, in any way I can .....

This is also a great suggestion and will show you the flinch.

 

[Leadeye]

The advice on using lower velocity 38 special is good and there's nothing wrong with 38 special as a defensive round.

 

[GoBoilers!]

I fight this same issue. Many good tips already given. Here is what I found the most helpful.
- I start each practice session with a .22 to focus on fundamentals - trigger control, breathing, sight picture, stance.
- I go back and forth between .38 and .357 ammo.
- I wear GOOD ear protection. The noise often affects me too.
- I take breaks and dry fire in between live fire - to settle me down and relax.
- I focus on breathing, trigger control, front sight, follow up. I go slow. I do not even try for quick follow up shots until my first shots are consistent.

I hope this helps a bit. Enjoy it!

----
GB!

 

[phylodog]

- I wear GOOD ear protection. The noise often affects me too.

I was getting ready to post this. Wear foam plugs properly seated and a pair of good quality muffs over them. I've found this to be very helpful for new shooters, it helps to eliminate one of the causes for flinching.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

I was getting ready to post this. Wear foam plugs properly seated and a pair of good quality muffs over them. I've found this to be very helpful for new shooters, it helps to eliminate one of the causes for flinching.

New shooters yes, but I would get used to loud bangs and flashes. Shooting well at a range with double-ear and eye protection doesn't always translate to shooting well in a defensive scenario with no protection.

 

[Arthur Dent]

I used to have a pretty serious flinch/recoil anticipation. Dry firing helped a ton. Slowly pulling the trigger at first and going faster over time. Also being sure not to blink whenever the hammer falls. I also practice getting back on target by doing a recoil movement with my wrists, concentrating on picking up the front sight as the barrel comes down and realigning the sights. Same thing, starting slow and increasing the speed over time. Let muscle memory do the rest.

 

[phylodog]

New shooters yes, but I would get used to loud bangs and flashes. Shooting well at a range with double-ear and eye protection doesn't always translate to shooting well in a defensive scenario with no protection.

The vast majority of people who must use deadly force to defend themselves will barely hear the sound of their own firearm. Sound is a contributing factor to flinching, eliminating it as much as possible allows for building better neural pathways that will be relied upon during a defensive shooting.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

The vast majority of people who must use deadly force to defend themselves will barely hear the sound of their own firearm. Sound is a contributing factor to flinching, eliminating it as much as possible allows for building better neural pathways that will be relied upon during a defensive shooting.

Good point.

 

[varkman]

On a revolver, on double action you will feel it begin to break, practice pulling till the break then holding re-align the sights and let it break. There is also the old school method of putting a coin on the front sight and dry fire it without letting the coin fall. If you shoot magnums in a snubbie, you are going to get loud noises, and recoil, just part of the package.

 

[sliptap]

I own a Smith M&P 340 and was shocked at the flinching that I had after shooting full house .357s. I've shot plenty of hot pistols before, but the airlight .357 is a whole different animal.

Here are the things I did to improve accuracy and shootability:

1) Installed an APEX trigger kit (http://www.amazon.com/Apex-Tactical...50898762&sr=8-1&keywords=Apex+Trigger+J+Frame) This kit includes some lighter springs and new firing pin. This lightened and smoothed trigger pull. With a lighter, more predictable trigger, I was able to place better shots. The installation took about an hour and Apex has self-install videos that make it super easy.

2) Installed a slightly beefier grip. The stock J-Frame grips are ok, but don't do much to tame recoil. I actually added a Taurus grip, as it was thicker and had better coverage over the backstrap and trigger guard. More importantly, it took away a lot of the recoil sting and didn't add to the size of the pistol. Another option is to look at something like Pachymer or Hogue grips, at the expense of weight and size.

These two changes made a night and day difference with my snub nosed, jframe .357. Best of luck!

 

[Grelber]

Dry fire helps me, the other thing is that during live fire I focus just on pulling the trigger (hammer) back and do not think about what happens after that. Sort of a weird mental thing but it works for me.

 

[drop45]

Shoot a couple cylinders of full house 44 magnum and then shoot your 357. You'll think you're shooting .22's in no time.

 

[Expat]

Everyone has hit most of the points I would make. Check your grip. Make sure you have a solid pull with your off hand back toward you, so you are holding it tighter. I also find shooting the .22s in between reinforces good technique.