Don't bet your life on averages

[iChokePeople]

Everything in life is a risk vs. reward, calculated decision.

If one's not a good shot, I'd suggest [STRIKE]carrying[/STRIKE] more [STRIKE]ammo[/STRIKE] training. If one's not taken any training, I'd suggest more [STRIKE]ammo[/STRIKE] training. If one doesn't know how they react when their life is threatened, I'd suggest more [STRIKE]ammo[/STRIKE] training. etc. etc.

FTFY.

 

[Rob377]

I read a few stories recently about people being swallowed by sinkholes. I've added spelunking gear to my EDC.

 

[the1kidd03]

FTFY.

Good points.

 

[bwframe]

Keep shooting until the threat is neutralized.
You can't go wrong with that.

As long as you don't miss:
NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire | Fox News

 

[Birds Away]

There is no right answer. I do, however, take exception to the Officer mentioning cupcakes without actually providing any to those of us who have none. I don't believe that you are acting in the spirit of the current administration. P.S. please don't curb stomp me for pointing this out.
Have a nice day.

 

[Rob377]

Be thankful there aren't any cupcakes provided. They could kill you. Just because most people get away unscathed eating them is inadequate justification for eating cupcakes when your life is on the line.

Man chokes to death during cupcake-eating contest | wtsp.com

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I read a few stories recently about people being swallowed by sinkholes. I've added spelunking gear to my EDC.

Pics, pls.

 

[Rob377]

Pics, pls.

Is that not terrifying?

It works out nicely. After the DC sniper thing, I started carrying 2 rifle plates in my laptop bag to use as a shield. There's enough room left over for a harness, a good amount of rope and some climbing spikes.

 

[88E30M50]

I go by few hard and fast rules when it comes to carry other than I always carry. Averages can be interesting in determining trends, but you need to be careful with them. You really need to know what goes into them before putting much stock in them. For instance, is the average number of gun shots in a gun fight truly just looking at gun fights or did they use only gun fights where someone was killed or shot. Did they include both parties in the gun fight or just the victor? Did they include suicide stats? That would really skew the numbers if they did.

I tend to carry as much gun as I can practically carry. What that is depends on the need to conceal, the place I'm going, what I'll be doing and who I'll be doing it with. Sometimes that means I'll be carrying a Glock 20 with a pair of spare mags and others, it's a Glock 27 with spare mags. More often than not, it's going to be a Glock 23 due to the fact that it's what I'm shooting the best right now. As another poster above said, there is no reason to not carry as much as you can carry for any given situation.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Is that not terrifying?

It works out nicely. After the DC sniper thing, I started carrying 2 rifle plates in my laptop bag to use as a shield. There's enough room left over for a harness, a good amount of rope and some climbing spikes.

It is, but I was really wanting pics of you in your EDC. I'm having trouble figuring out how to get the rappelling harness over my SCUBA gear (you know, in case of a bridge collapse while I'm driving over it).

 

[Joq867]

^^^^^
I must agree, carry as much weapon and ammo as you are comfortable with. With a Glock 19 you have 15+1 in your concealed holster with 2 Glock 17 mags for backup you have 51 rounds at your disposal, all genuine equipment, less chance of failure and easy to find pouches or holsters for.

 

[LEaSH]

You only really need to edc ninja shoes to walk up walls.

You could just wear them under your boots.

 

[Rob377]

It is, but I was really wanting pics of you in your EDC. I'm having trouble figuring out how to get the rappelling harness over my SCUBA gear (you know, in case of a bridge collapse while I'm driving over it).

These things are the best. Much handier than a full SCUBA rig, and you don't need to give up being prepared for sinkholes.

Spare Air - the smallest redundant SCUBA system available with enough air to get you to the surface in an out-of-air emergency.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

You only really need to edc ninja shoes to walk up walls.

You could just wear them under your boots.

These things are the best. Much handier than a full SCUBA rig, and you don't need to give up being prepared for sinkholes.

Spare Air - the smallest redundant SCUBA system available with enough air to get you to the surface in an out-of-air emergency.

So simple, so elegant. You Sirs, are both genius in your own little way.

 

[LEaSH]

Ala Gecko45.

Thee legend.

 

[actaeon277]

Just a reminder that handgun calibers are actually pretty poor performers.

Wasn't there some old quote about using your handgun to fight your way to your rifle?

Better than a club or peeing on yourself, but not quite as definitive as, say, 5.56 or 00 Buckshot.

That would be Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch.

I think Clint Smith was quoting Col. Jeff Cooper. But I could be wrong. I can't find proof, so maybe I am.



If we were betting our life on averages, we probably wouldn't be carrying. Chances are, we won't need it.

I have NEVER heard anyone claim, "Wow, I had way too much ammo. I wish I didn't have so much.", after a gun fight.
Once again, I may be wrong.

 

[KJW]

As always very entertaining reading and posts by a number of folks, and some good info too.
I will try to make slightly different points that I haven't read yet. First, I think the OP makes a little bit of a logical error (in the article) when he segues from the average to the minimum. He seemed to do a fine job of describing the average, but then in the next paragraph asks why you would settle for the minimum requirement. I don't get that. If you have 8 rounds, that's 1.6 -2.67 times more than the average number of rounds fired, not 1.6-2.67 times more than the minimum.
Secondly, the plural of anecdote is not data. Everyone has a story about someone or something that happened in a completely unpredictable or unusual manner. We can't live our lives based on anecdotes. I hope you're not relying on the anecdotal stories of people making $10K/month from home on their computers as seen on late night TV to fund your retirement.
If you want to carry oodles of ammo, that's fine, just say you're doing it based on your personal (lack of) tolerance for risk and uncertainty, but not because a few anecdotes where war chests of ammo were emptied in the exchange make the rule.

 

[88E30M50]

The key is to try to find that point that works for you in any given situation. We do that already on a day to day basis in other areas of life, so why not in firearm carry as well. For instance, we all know that auto accidents happen. We know that they can be deadly and that sometimes airbags and seatbelts are not enough. But, how many of us insist that we go nowhere in a car without a rollbar, helmet and HANS device to protect us in case we get T-boned by a texting Excursion driver?

None of us come with warranty or guarantee info printed on our body. I don't think I do and I am positive my wife doesn't. I know, because I've looked pretty closely. Every day, we assess risk and make choices. Do we always get someone to hold the ladder when we get a branch out of the gutter? Probably not.

It's no different in carry. Each of us determines what is the minimum level of safety we are willing to accept for any given situation. For me, that changes a lot based on the situation. It also can be a bit counter-intuitive. I usually ask myself: 'If I found myself in a shooting situation here, what would I most likely be up against?'. That question results in carrying fairly heavily while at home.

The idea is that if I'm out grocery shopping, and if I had to defend my wife and I with a gun, it is probably a petty criminal I'm up against. I'm pretty confident that my Glock 23 with spare mags would be adequate. But, if I'm relaxing at home at 10pm and I find myself in a shooting situation, then I'm not up against a petty criminal, I'm defending against a home invasion that had some pre-planning. I'm much more comfortable in that situation with a Glock 20sf and a pair of mags. Ideally, I'd have an AR or Mossberg 930 across my lap when it started, but that would be like wearing a helmet to drive to church.

 

[edeekeos]

Outside of the homicide detectives and a grand jury, you're the first person to ask me that.

Let's see...scared less, when I got hit, and a tactical reload during the event, moving from my shot out window to a telephone pole, and then to his car. All the while, I was hoping he'd stop firing. He had a 6-shot .357 and actually dumped the empty shells and reloaded during the gunfight. I fired a total of 19 times. 6 sets of three as per training, verbal orders to drop the gun, and finally the headshot. 9 went in him, a vacant building took 3 shots and never did find the other round impacts.

I was lucky. The round he fired was a reloaded .357 lead round, if it was jacketed I probably wouldn't be here. It went under my vest stirrup, skidded along my chest and sunk into my collarbone. The exact same shot, 7 years later killed IPD Officer Jake Laird, however, that was a 7.62X39 fired from an SKS.

Anyway, it was a damn good Christmas present, being able to walk away..the morning of December 26th, after having gone into work on Christmas night.

I have been without internet for a week, I just seen your response. Thanks for the details. I can not even begin to imagine the fear, adrenaline, or chaos of a situation like that! Glad you got the BG, but more importantly, glad you made it out alive!!

 

[Somemedic]

I was involved in a self defense situation years ago. Bad guy was hit 8 times, 6 center mass and he was still trying to kill me. It took a headshot to stop the attack. CNS is the best, but very difficult to obtain, especially when you've been wounded.

Would you care to discuss calibers used?