Dollar & debt...unsustainable

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  • Magyars

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    Rest of article at link.......http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2726651/posts

    [SIZE=+1]When Faith In U.S. Dollars/Debt Is Dead, The Game Is Over[/SIZE]
    The Economic Collapse ^| 2011.05.28 |

    Posted on Sunday, May 29, 2011 12:10:11 AM by Oculus III

    A day is coming when the rest of the world will decide that it no longer has faith in U.S. dollars or in U.S. debt. When that day arrives, the game will be over. Traditionally, two of the biggest things that the U.S. economy has had going for it were the U.S. dollar and U.S. Treasuries. The U.S. dollar has been the default reserve currency of the world for decades. All over the globe it was seen as a strong, stable currency that was desirable for international trade. U.S. government debt has long been considered the "safest debt" in the entire world. Whenever there was a major crisis, investors would flock to U.S. Treasuries because they were considered a rock. Sadly, all of this is now changing. Today the rest of the world is losing faith in the U.S. financial system. In fact, even the United Nations is now warning of the collapse of the dollar. But if the U.S. dollar and U.S. Treasuries collapse, that will be an absolute nightmare for the U.S. economy. If the rest of the world does not want our dollars someday, then what are we going to give them in exchange for all of the oil and all of the cheap imported goods they send us? If the rest of the world does not want our debt someday, then how in the world are we going to be able to continue to consume far, far more wealth than we produce?
    The rest of the world is watching the U.S. government run up record-setting budget deficits and they are watching the Federal Reserve print money like there is no tomorrow and they realize that the U.S. financial system is slowly imploding.
    As mentioned above, now even the United Nations is warning that the U.S. dollar could collapse. The following is a brief excerpt from a recent news report put out by Reuters....
    The United Nations warned on Wednesday of a possible crisis of confidence in, and even a “collapse” of, the U.S. dollar if its value against other currencies continued to decline. In a mid-year review of the world economy, the UN economic division said such a development, stemming from the falling value of foreign dollar holdings, would imperil the global financial system.
     

    Stschil

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    Its Obamaized!!!!!

    An we voted for it........


    I am in no way defending that trouser snake, but he's just the face of establishment at this present point in time. He is, admittedly, part of the problem and he is the Kenyan Keynesian, for sure, but We, as you say, have voted for it, time and time again. With each election cycle, over decades, We have allowed the status quo to remain in place. With each cycle, We have given in to complacency, apathy, sloth, greed and selfishness and believed that it was for the 'greater good'.

    Flame me if you will, but I say bring on the crash. I may not survive it, like many others, but the sacrifices of our Forefathers, I believe, demand that same sacrifice on OUR part today. I have no wish to see suffering, no rational compassionate person does, but herein lies the problem. To avoid a comparitively small amount of suffering in the past, We have, in effect, set the stage for mass suffering in the future.

    The mole hill has become the mountain
     

    edsinger

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    No Problem...

    I have a solution to the whole mess, drastically reduced taxes by method of collection, cut spending on crap, meet obligations we have made and stop making new ones and watch the economy grow itself to where the debt is a non issue. It has happened before, the early 80's.
     

    jmiller676

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    The only thing Im worried about is investing my money in material things and getting closer to family and God. This is how America was born and will be reborn when the time comes.
     
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    To add on to this. Moody's today warned about cutting the debt rating on US debt if there is not some decision made on the debt ceiling. It seems like they are trying to make it worse. Maybe to move us to one world currency???
     

    Stschil

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    To add on to this. Moody's today warned about cutting the debt rating on US debt if there is not some decision made on the debt ceiling. It seems like they are trying to make it worse. Maybe to move us to one world currency???

    We've seen how well that worked for the EU. One world currency will NOT help the US it will hand over control of our country to the globalists who want to see us fall. IMHO
     

    grunt soldier

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    We've seen how well that worked for the EU. One world currency will NOT help the US it will hand over control of our country to the globalists who want to see us fall. IMHO

    isn't that what the liberals want though? I mean they haven't been doing this stuff to our country for no reason. its unfortunate that the average person doesn't realize what has been happening.
     

    jmiller676

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    isn't that what the liberals want though? I mean they haven't been doing this stuff to our country for no reason. its unfortunate that the average person doesn't realize what has been happening.

    Thats what PROGRESSIVES want. They hate the Western civilization and think everybody will one day live in peace. And they call us crazy for owning guns when we have the whole Middle East chanting "death to America" and "death to Israel".
     

    IndySSD

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    We've seen how well that worked for the EU. One world currency will NOT help the US it will hand over control of our country to the globalists who want to see us fall. IMHO

    Omg, have to spread it around!

    isn't that what the liberals want though? I mean they haven't been doing this stuff to our country for no reason. its unfortunate that the average person doesn't realize what has been happening.

    Ding Ding Ding!

    The fact that America never needed ANYONE to survive was what made this country strong, now we are beholden to everyone for the simplest of items.:(



    Thats what PROGRESSIVES want. They hate the Western civilization and think everybody will one day live in peace. And they call us crazy for owning guns when we have the whole Middle East chanting "death to America" and "death to Israel".

    Calling something "crazy" is the easiest way to get sheep to shun that item/behavior... seems like it's working on the masses to me.:xmad:
     

    Leadeye

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    I don't really see a crash, just a steady deterioration in middle class standards of living. Worse some years than others.
     

    downzero

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    I don't really see a crash, just a steady deterioration in middle class standards of living. Worse some years than others.

    or better yet, a redefining of what is "middle class." People who make $80k are not "middle class" and need to stop thinking they are.
     

    mrjarrell

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    or better yet, a redefining of what is "middle class." People who make $80k are not "middle class" and need to stop thinking they are.

    What's "middle class" defined as then? Just curious......
    Yeah, me, too. $80K is certainly middle class. So is $100K. So is $150K. I think you're not taking into account the devalued worth of the dollar. $30K is too close to the poverty line to be considered near the middle class. What is the middle class in your estimation?
     

    Stschil

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    or better yet, a redefining of what is "middle class." People who make $80k are not "middle class" and need to stop thinking they are.


    If you could ask anyone from the Wiemar Republic or post collaspe Argentina what would $80,000 buy you, I wonder what they would tell you.

    Adjusting for inflation, $80,000 today has the same buying power as $6,225 did in 1925.

    Inflation Calculator | Find US Dollar's Value from 1913-2011

    When QE3 hits and the Fed starts printing money 24/7 again, you'll be able to watch that $80,000 a year income fall in it's buying power like the ball in Times Square on New Years Eve. The Fed is intentionally doing this. It is a form of theft, IMHO, outright stealing our hard earned money by lowering it's value.

    Flooding the system with money does nothing to stimulate the economy, it takes the value of the money away and limits our buying power.

    When the world no longer has confindence in the US Dollar, and I believe that this is on the very near horizon, the dollar crashes. I hope and pray that people are prepared.
     

    windellmc

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    QE2 drove up the stock market (as inflation often does) so a lot of people probably think it was a good thing. It also helps make the claims of the news media that the economy is back to normal look more believable.
     

    Libertarian01

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    To All,

    We cannot compare anything that is happening to a EU country to what may or may not happen in the US.

    One of the big problems Greece had/has is that it is on the Euro.

    When a country begins to encounter a deep:poop: event a good response can be to devalue its currency. This means that it is cheaper for other nationalities to spend tourist money there. The products produced in its factories become less expensive on the world market, and thus more competitive.

    Greece (and Ireland) were unable to devalue their currency and thus limited in their responses. This compounded their problem.

    This is also how China continues to stick it to the US by keeping its currency at a low rate compared to the dollar. See link below:

    USD/CNY Currency Conversion Chart - Yahoo! Finance

    The Yuan has come down from a whopping 6.9 to about 6.5 in the last two (2) years. This means it will always be cheaper to have something made in China over the USA.

    Our debt has the compound problem of putting a greater burden on us of making interest payments on said debt. Just like a credit card if your minimum monthly payment is $30 then about $25 (just a guess) is going toward interest and only $5 is actually paying what you owe.

    Our debt is owed mostly to the public. This includes a broad range, but much of it is in YOUR retirement portfolio - if you have one. Out of about $14.33 Trillion $9.74 Trillion is held by private holders. So if we just wipe it out that will screw over a LOT of American citizens and companies. The remaining $4.6 Trillion is held by intragovernmental holdings. This means holdings by other branches of the US Govt, such as Social Security. Oops... We owe ourselves.:dunno:

    All of this ignores the 10's of Trillions of dollars we have in unfunded liabilities! Medicare underfunded. You don't know anyone on Medicare, do you? Military pension plans.

    The problem is that whatever solution we come up with is really going to hurt...A LOT! No politician wants to be the one to cut the pursestrings to their district/state - and yet that is what MUST BE DONE to control the fall. Because IF we do not force ourselves to amputate where we choose, then fate will dictate what is amputated when the free fall occurs.

    In short - buy gold. It will always have some value. Buy guns - to protect you (and the gold:D)!

    Regards,

    Doug
     

    Bond 281

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    Jan 4, 2011
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    To All,

    We cannot compare anything that is happening to a EU country to what may or may not happen in the US.

    One of the big problems Greece had/has is that it is on the Euro.

    When a country begins to encounter a deep:poop: event a good response can be to devalue its currency. This means that it is cheaper for other nationalities to spend tourist money there. The products produced in its factories become less expensive on the world market, and thus more competitive.

    Greece (and Ireland) were unable to devalue their currency and thus limited in their responses. This compounded their problem.

    This is also how China continues to stick it to the US by keeping its currency at a low rate compared to the dollar. See link below:

    USD/CNY Currency Conversion Chart - Yahoo! Finance

    The Yuan has come down from a whopping 6.9 to about 6.5 in the last two (2) years. This means it will always be cheaper to have something made in China over the USA.

    Our debt has the compound problem of putting a greater burden on us of making interest payments on said debt. Just like a credit card if your minimum monthly payment is $30 then about $25 (just a guess) is going toward interest and only $5 is actually paying what you owe.

    Our debt is owed mostly to the public. This includes a broad range, but much of it is in YOUR retirement portfolio - if you have one. Out of about $14.33 Trillion $9.74 Trillion is held by private holders. So if we just wipe it out that will screw over a LOT of American citizens and companies. The remaining $4.6 Trillion is held by intragovernmental holdings. This means holdings by other branches of the US Govt, such as Social Security. Oops... We owe ourselves.:dunno:

    All of this ignores the 10's of Trillions of dollars we have in unfunded liabilities! Medicare underfunded. You don't know anyone on Medicare, do you? Military pension plans.

    The problem is that whatever solution we come up with is really going to hurt...A LOT! No politician wants to be the one to cut the pursestrings to their district/state - and yet that is what MUST BE DONE to control the fall. Because IF we do not force ourselves to amputate where we choose, then fate will dictate what is amputated when the free fall occurs.

    In short - buy gold. It will always have some value. Buy guns - to protect you (and the gold:D)!

    Regards,

    Doug

    I fail to see how devaluing currency can have anything other than a very short term benefit, at best. Even then the devaluation has plenty of negative effects, just delayed. I also don't see how relative currency value plays any part at all in the price of goods. Currency has no intrinsic value, it's simply representative of a certain amount of wealth. If one dollar is 6.5 Yuan, and a loaf of bread is worth one dollar, is it not also worth 6.5 Yuan? It's not as though 1$ or 1 Yuan gets you the same amount of goods. We certainly pay Chinese workers substantially less than American workers, but that really has absolutely nothing to do with currency value. They simply have a lower standard of living and can afford to get paid less, thus lowering overhead and therefore price. If we pay a factory worker here 10$ an hour and a Chinese worker 65 Yuan an hour (using a 6.5:1 conversion rate) then the net change is zero.

    Sure, if you devalue currency you have a period where the amount of money and wages and prices and all that are out of sync and you get a small boom, but that same boom inevitably turns into a bust. It seems to me that you're arguing for Keynesian economics. Could you elaborate?
     
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