DNR Proposal for .243 and up rifle for deer season?

[Titanium_Frost]

Is there a link to the new wording? I really am worried that they have opened the door to some underpowered cartridges that some neighboring states ban.

Like what? The wording is the same as is currently legal in pistols.

 

[BigMoose]

These

.25-20 Win. - This is a black powder varmint cartridge. It was never intended for deer hunting and should not be used on anything bigger than a coyote.
.30 Carbine - This is a short range military carbine cartridge. As a hunting cartridge with expanding bullets, it is good for jack rabbits and small predators. It was not intended for deer hunting and is inadequate for the purpose.
.32-20 Win. - Like the .25-20, this is a black powder varmint cartridge. Its ballistics are inferior to the .30 Carbine.
.38-40 Winchester - Another revolver cartridge, in this case a black powder number only half as powerful as the .357 Magnum.

Or for that matter..... 9mm

Or on the other end of the scale..... some idiot with a 50BMG

 

[Dead Duck]

These

.25-20 Win. - This is a black powder varmint cartridge. It was never intended for deer hunting and should not be used on anything bigger than a coyote.
.30 Carbine - This is a short range military carbine cartridge. As a hunting cartridge with expanding bullets, it is good for jack rabbits and small predators. It was not intended for deer hunting and is inadequate for the purpose.
.32-20 Win. - Like the .25-20, this is a black powder varmint cartridge. Its ballistics are inferior to the .30 Carbine.
.38-40 Winchester - Another revolver cartridge, in this case a black powder number only half as powerful as the .357 Magnum.

Or for that matter..... 9mm

Or on the other end of the scale..... some [STRIKE]idiot[/STRIKE] Genius with a 50BMG

FIFY


Are you just jealous?

 

[BigMoose]

Well I predict in a few years, we will have energy requirement like some states have.

Colorado: 500 ft-lbs of energy retained at 50 yards.
Georgia: 500 ft-lbs of energy retained at 100 yards.
Washington: 500 ft-lbs of energy retained at 100 yards.

 

[yote hunter]

From what I was told 243 and up is the way they are talking so 243 6.5 300 30-30 30-06 and so on... They are saying there are muzzleloaders that shoot 500yds so whats the prob. with high powered rifles.... I haven't seen a muzzleloader that shoots that far, not that it couldn't but I couldn't hit anything with it at that distance... We do get to use high powered rifles for yotes so ???? But I use a AR .223 and my son-inlaw uses a 22-250 for yotes but them will be to small for deer, for what they are saying are to be used for deer...

 

[Hookeye]

The long range MZ's are probably Bad Bull muzzleloaders. IIRC they cost $3500.

Varmint bullets are different in construction than deer bullets, and not as many people hunt yotes as deer.................do we really need to go through this again and again..................?

 

[remauto1187]

Is there a link to the new wording? I really am worried that they have opened the door to some underpowered cartridges that some neighboring states ban.

Huh? Like what "underpowered cartridge"? Anything .243 and above will take a deer cleanly. What cartridge .243 and up are you worried about not taking a deer cleanly?

 

[BigMoose]

Stuff like 30 carbine, many states have had to specifically ban it.

 

[avboiler11]

Kentucky has no energy requirement, there's never been an issue there in the DECADES they've allowed modern centerfire rifles.

Why?

Because pretty much nobody hunts with those cartridges when you can get 30-30, 243, 270, 7 Mag, 30-06 and 300WM at any Wally-Mart for $25/box.

As I've said a couple times upthread, the last two deer I've shot in Kentucky were with (gasp) a 223 Ackley Improved with 80gr A-Max, and a 5.56 AR with a 77gr Nosler Custom Comp...both killed deer just as dead, just as quickly, as I ever have with a '06.

 

[kalboy]

These

.25-20 Win. - This is a black powder varmint cartridge. It was never intended for deer hunting and should not be used on anything bigger than a coyote.
.30 Carbine - This is a short range military carbine cartridge. As a hunting cartridge with expanding bullets, it is good for jack rabbits and small predators. It was not intended for deer hunting and is inadequate for the purpose.
.32-20 Win. - Like the .25-20, this is a black powder varmint cartridge. Its ballistics are inferior to the .30 Carbine.
.38-40 Winchester - Another revolver cartridge, in this case a black powder number only half as powerful as the .357 Magnum.

Or for that matter..... 9mm

Or on the other end of the scale..... some idiot with a 50BMG

38-40 is legal now and has been ever since handgun rifle cartridges were made permissible.
From the DNR....

Rifles with cartridges that fire a bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and have a maximum case length of 1.8 inches are legal to use only during the deer firearms and special antlerless seasons. Some cartridges legal for deer hunting include the .357 Magnum, .38-.40 Winchester, .41 Magnum, .41 Special, .44 Magnum, .44 Special, .44-.40 Winchester, .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .458 SOCOM, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action Express, .500 S&W, .460 Smith & Wesson, .450 Bushmaster, and .50 Beowulf.
Deer Seasons, Licenses and Equipment | Indiana Hunting & Trapping Guide | eRegulations.com

32-20, 25-20 and 30 Carbine are illegal now, and remain illegal under the proposed new rules do they not?
9x19MM will also remain illegal as will 40SW and 45ACP, the minimum case length requirement isn't going away.

Just wondering, where did you read/hear the cartridges you mentioned( other than the presently legal 38-40) would be allowed?
In any case the prevailing trend will be , as in Kentucky, to go larger rather than smaller. 300 Win Mag is very popular there and will likely sell briskly here as well if the proposed rules pass.



http://www.in.gov/dnr/fishwild/files/fw-DNR_General_FW_Proposed_Rules.pdf

 

[remauto1187]

Stuff like 30 carbine, many states have had to specifically ban it.

I highly doubt there will be many if any at all hunters walking around the woods with a USGI (CMP) .30 Carbine. Now maybe one of those knockoffs but doubt that too considering how hard ammo is to find for that caliber. But if they did, it would be legal if the .243 and up rules are made gospel.
I personally know of nobody that hunts with a .30 carbine and only know of 2 people that even have one. I missed that boat when the CMP still had them.

 

[Willie]

Well I predict in a few years, we will have energy requirement like some states have.

Colorado: 500 ft-lbs of energy retained at 50 yards.
Georgia: 500 ft-lbs of energy retained at 100 yards.
Washington: 500 ft-lbs of energy retained at 100 yards.

With so many reloads, how do they enforce it?

 

[Hookeye]

I highly doubt there will be many if any at all hunters walking around the woods with a USGI (CMP) .30 Carbine. Now maybe one of those knockoffs but doubt that too considering how hard ammo is to find for that caliber. But if they did, it would be legal if the .243 and up rules are made gospel.
I personally know of nobody that hunts with a .30 carbine and only know of 2 people that even have one. I missed that boat when the CMP still had them.

Back in the day one of my buds hunted Michigan, said there were quite a few .30 Carbine users (legal or not).

The guns themselves when I was a kid were everywhere, all the weirdos had them.

 

[kalboy]

I highly doubt there will be many if any at all hunters walking around the woods with a USGI (CMP) .30 Carbine. Now maybe one of those knockoffs but doubt that too considering how hard ammo is to find for that caliber. But if they did, it would be legal if the .243 and up rules are made gospel.
I personally know of nobody that hunts with a .30 carbine and only know of 2 people that even have one. I missed that boat when the CMP still had them.

Where are you guys getting this 30 carbine is to be legal stuff? Maybe I'm reading it wrong, as the cartridges 25-20, 32-20, 30 carbine and 38 special are addressed under handguns but the proposal reads " All 25-20, 32-20, 30 carbine and 38 special ammunition is prohibited"
Does this not mean in both long and handgun?

 

[Mgderf]

Where are you guys getting this 30 carbine is to be legal stuff? Maybe I'm reading it wrong, as the cartridges 25-20, 32-20, 30 carbine and 38 special are addressed under handguns but the proposal reads " All 25-20, 32-20, 30 carbine and 38 special ammunition is prohibited"
Does this not mean in both long and handgun?

I'm not sure, but I don't think the .30 Carbine makes the minimum case length of 1.16" does it?

 

[roadrunner681]

I'm not sure, but I don't think the .30 Carbine makes the minimum case length of 1.16" does it?

according to Wikipedia the average 30 carbine case is 1.290 inches but im sure its already excluded anyways. there will be more mosins in the woods then 30 carbines if this rule passes anyways.

 

[kalboy]

I'm not sure, but I don't think the .30 Carbine makes the minimum case length of 1.16" does it?

Actually it does, ( 1.290) but was specifically prohibited along with 25-20 and 32-20 that also met the dimensional specs on bore diameter and case length but were also considered underpowered.

 

[kalboy]

Maybe I'm assuming too much in thinking now that the proposed dimensional requirements are the same for hand and long gun cartridges that the cartridges specifically excluded for handguns on non dimensional grounds , ie underpowered ( and since the proposal contains no language otherwise allowing them in long guns )their prohibition would remain in effect for long guns as well. We'll see, I've emailed DNR asking about this and will relay any comments from them.

Edit, Have gotten a reply from DNR... While the 25-20, 32-20 and M1 Carbine are restricted from handgun despite meeting the dimensional requirements it is not at present the intention to similarly exclude them from long guns, that is if the proposal is enacted as is, message text from DNR below......



The changes that have been proposed governing rifle cartridges for deer hunting would allow rifle cartridges that have a bullet at least .243 in diameter and have a minimum cartridge case length of 1.16 inches. This would include the 25-20, 32-30, and 30 carbine. Please note that this is still just a proposal at this time. We still have to receive approval from several other agencies and get final adoption from the Natural Resources Commission, which will not be until next year. There will be a public hearing next year, then we have to go back to the Commission for final adoption (likely in May of next year).

You can submit your comments to the Natural Resources Commission at: NRC: Current Rule Proposals and click on "comment on this rule" for the FW: Biennial Rule Amendment Package.

If you sign up for Wild Bulletin (our free electronic newsletter that comes out once a month), you will receive an email with information about the rule process, including the public hearing(s). You can sign up for Wild Bulletin at: DNR: Wild Bulletin

Sincerely,

Linnea Petercheff
Operations Staff Specialist
Division of Fish and Wildlife
402 W. Washington Street, Room W273
Indianapolis, IN 46204
Phone: (317) 233-6527
Fax: (317) 232-8150

 

[midget]

Hmmm.... I might have to get out my m1 garand.... Hell, 1903a4....

 

[ViperJock]

When is the vote/final decision to be made on this?