Dispelling the ‘Few Extremists’ Myth – the Muslim World Is Overcome with Hate

[printcraft]

Now who am I to judge by what means one finds peace on this earth??????

"Man who have sex with woman on ground have peace on earth." - Confucius

That could be a misquote, it was translated to English from the original Chinese.....

 

[indiucky]

"Man who have sex with woman on ground have peace on earth." - Confucius

That could be a misquote, it was translated to English from the original Chinese.....

Actually the original translation is "Man who have sex with woman on ground have peace on earth and woman have dirt on butt.." My Mandarin, like a hairy arm pit woman's razor...Is a little rusty.....


All of this talk of IS IS has me longing for Was (Not Was....)

[video=youtube;zYKupOsaJmk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYKupOsaJmk[/video]

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

You realize a bigoted anti islam website is no argument right? You can find websites that say whatever you want to hear and it does not change the fact that the vast majority of Muslims peacefully co exist and those in the minority do not define the whole religion.

so a site that simply compiles a list of what they do is racist and bigoted? Who'd thunk it?

 

[Roland of Gilead]

Side note it is really cool to see people recite the entire Quran front to back 100% to the word all by memory. (I wold think it equally as cool to see it done for other books as well.)

How long does it take a person to recite the Quran?

I enjoy audio books, an average novel is about 8 hours. Epics like Lonsome Dove and The Stand are over 40 hours.

 

[jamil]

I think that is a good question. The same question I asked myself when I was learning the religion. I finally settled at I will not understand or ever have that question fully answered. I guess it's the same as every other religion being originally told in one language and then it was left to the people of other languages to translate. I would guess that Arab Christians probably have the same question about the bible when they are reading a translated version.

Muhammad, could not read or write. He had to memorize word for word then recite to others which also did the same before it hit paper. That practice still lives on today. That, to me, also plays a part in why it remains quoted to this day in Arabic rather than other languages.

That is generally the thing about faith that I don't accept. Those unanswered questions will affect my willingness to believe. For example, if the spiritually arrived at answer to the question of what happens when you die is eternal life, in a practical sense that answer creates more unanswerable questions than it answered. First, I must ignore the fact that there is no physical evidence for an eternal soul or endless consciousness after death. And second, I must be satisfied with that answer causing more unanswered questions than I started with. That belief requires faith. And not just in the belief itself, but also faith in the human beings who told me that.

 

[jamil]

How long does it take a person to recite the Quran?

I enjoy audio books, an average novel is about 8 hours. Epics like Lonsome Dove and The Stand are over 40 hours.

Well, if I have to listen to it in the original Arabic, I'm probably going to tune out fairly quickly.

 

[BugI02]

Actually the original translation is "Man who have sex with woman on ground have peace on earth and woman have dirt on butt.." My Mandarin, like a hairy arm pit woman's razor...Is a little rusty.....


All of this talk of IS IS has me longing for Was (Not Was....)

Niiiice segue. Somewhere in America there's a street named after my dad.

 

[BugI02]

That is generally the thing about faith that I don't accept. Those unanswered questions will affect my willingness to believe. For example, if the spiritually arrived at answer to the question of what happens when you die is eternal life, in a practical sense that answer creates more unanswerable questions than it answered. First, I must ignore the fact that there is no physical evidence for an eternal soul or endless consciousness after death. And second, I must be satisfied with that answer causing more unanswered questions than I started with. That belief requires faith. And not just in the belief itself, but also faith in the human beings who told me that.

Faith is analagous to jumping off a cliff and building your wings on the way down.

 

[Tombs]

You realize a bigoted anti islam website is no argument right? You can find websites that say whatever you want to hear and it does not change the fact that the vast majority of Muslims peacefully co exist and those in the minority do not define the whole religion.

You realize that no amount of social-justice-warrioring will:
1.) Give back 2,974 lives that were lost on 9/11/2001
2.) Reattach the heads of all those beheaded in the name of allah, in accordance with islamic faith and tradition
3.) End the islamic cultural practice of child abuse and rape (Don't believe me? Look up chai boys, and the soldiers who have had to face consequences for standing up to those child molesters.)
4.) End the mutilation, abuse, murder, rape, and degradation of women living under islamic rule

I don't care if a muslim refuses to follow their beliefs or not, a few minutes of searching through their book tells you everything you need to know about them, and perfectly explains the daily problems we see coming from them around the world.

If you can read that book and still chose to follow that faith, you are an extremist.

I'm sure some here think Saudi Arabia is a moderate nation. Meanwhile, they crucify someone for speaking out against the government when he was 17. Ali Mohammed al-Nimr faces execution in Saudi Arabia for taking part in protest | Daily Mail Online

I don't think you can find a more moderate site than this, and they're still trying to defend absolutely insane levels of barbarism: Frequently Asked Questions about Stoning | Violence is not our Culture

 

[BugI02]

To all posters in this thread. I haven't seen BBI say it but maybe I can presume to say it for him. I think he find's it very draining to be appointed the 'Defender of the Faith'. It is hard for him to see his chosen faith maligned and misunderstood but he likely find's it to be wearing to have to constantly respond to seeming unending questions and challenges. Hopefully some of comparable understanding of Islam will rise to his aid, as I believe 7.62 already has. By way of example let me say I was raised Baptist. Given my background, if I were to attempt to explain to others the finer points of Catholicism I would surely get it wrong and Catholics herein would rightly take me to task about my errors. BBI must feel the same way about the shortcomings of our understanding of his faith. But he is most often left to be the sole voice refuting these errors and he is weary of it. Although I am as curious as anybody to have a source of information on Islam that I judge to be a good man and true without a larger agenda, perhaps we need to give him some space to just live without having to be the Encyclopedia Islamica. I have typed as many heedless, thoughtless, stupid things on INGO as the next man, maybe more. I might even be on BBI's ignore list for all I know. But I know I hope he doesn't leave INGO as I would miss his wit, his testimony and his acumen vis a vis economics just to name a few. No one is asking you to completely give up your cherished grievances with Islam, just acknowledge that you know at least one good Muslim and give him the and his family the respect they have earned.

 

[Blackhawk2001]

You realize a bigoted anti islam website is no argument right? You can find websites that say whatever you want to hear and it does not change the fact that the vast majority of Muslims peacefully co exist and those in the minority do not define the whole religion.

So what do you consider "a majority", because just about everywhere in the world where Islam "co-exists" with other religions, they are in conflict with someone. Iraq, Syria, Turkey, most of Western Europe, Bosnia/Serbia, Russia, China, Indonesia, the Philippines, India/Pakistan/Bangladesh, Africa.

 

[rob63]

To all posters in this thread. I haven't seen BBI say it but maybe I can presume to say it for him. I think he find's it very draining to be appointed the 'Defender of the Faith'. It is hard for him to see his chosen faith maligned and misunderstood but he likely find's it to be wearing to have to constantly respond to seeming unending questions and challenges. Hopefully some of comparable understanding of Islam will rise to his aid, as I believe 7.62 already has. By way of example let me say I was raised Baptist. Given my background, if I were to attempt to explain to others the finer points of Catholicism I would surely get it wrong and Catholics herein would rightly take me to task about my errors. BBI must feel the same way about the shortcomings of our understanding of his faith. But he is most often left to be the sole voice refuting these errors and he is weary of it. Although I am as curious as anybody to have a source of information on Islam that I judge to be a good man and true without a larger agenda, perhaps we need to give him some space to just live without having to be the Encyclopedia Islamica. I have typed as many heedless, thoughtless, stupid things on INGO as the next man, maybe more. I might even be on BBI's ignore list for all I know. But I know I hope he doesn't leave INGO as I would miss his wit, his testimony and his acumen vis a vis economics just to name a few. No one is asking you to completely give up your cherished grievances with Islam, just acknowledge that you know at least one good Muslim and give him the and his family the respect they have earned.

Well said!

I would like to add that not only has this has been a very interesting and educational thread for me, as I am sure it has been for many, it has left me with some things to ponder about. I am a Christian and always have been, but I can see that my view of the nature of God seems to be more in tune with BBI's beliefs than with several of my fellow Christians. I could only hope that I could explain my religious beliefs with the patience that BBI has demonstrated under the circumstances, well done sir!

 

[PaulF]

If you can read that book and still chose to follow that faith, you are an extremist.

The people who follow "that faith" peacefully and otherwise without the trappings of "terrorism" can be counted in the billions.

BILLIONS.

If you are comfortable laying the deeds of the violent few at the feet of the pious many, surely you are fine with me, an Atheist, lumping all believers of invisible deities in together with those same violent few?

...if you can look at the empty sky and see gods and devils, you must be an extremist.

Framed in this manner, can you see the error in this line of thinking? Now what about yours?

 

[Tombs]

The people who follow "that faith" peacefully and otherwise without the trappings of "terrorism" can be counted in the billions.

BILLIONS.

If you are comfortable laying the deeds of the violent few at the feet of the pious many, surely you are fine with me, an Atheist, lumping all believers of invisible deities in together with those same violent few?

...if you can look at the empty sky and see gods and devils, you must be an extremist.

Framed in this manner, can you see the error in this line of thinking? Now what about yours?

If someone is really casting aside that much of their own book, ignoring the "infallible" words of their god, how can they be considered to be following that faith?

Wouldn't they have just created a new religion? And if so, why identify with that specific faith at that point?

 

[BugI02]

Tombs of every race and every religion there are always people who love to hurt and kill others. They will latch onto any excuse to feed their inner demons.

 

[PaulF]

If someone is really casting aside that much of their own book, ignoring the "infallible" words of their god, how can they be considered to be following that faith?

Wouldn't they have just created a new religion? And if so, why identify with that specific faith at that point?

Christians routinely gloss over, or ignore whole-cloth, large potions of the bible...has anyone reminded Creflo Dollar of the Camel and the eye of the needle? How many times have I heard Christians claim that the Old Testament no longer applies to them?

I do not think it is absurd that a Muslim can reject man-dictated jihad and still call themselves a devout Muslim. Your greater point ferries no weight: Islam does not automatically demand violence.

 

[steveh_131]

Now who am I to judge by what means one finds peace on this earth??????

Again, it's not about judging. Good for him, I'm glad he's happy for a short time. I'm not glad about his eternal destination, though. Should I be?

 

[Tombs]

Christians routinely gloss over, or ignore whole-cloth, large potions of the bible...has anyone reminded Creflo Dollar of the Camel and the eye of the needle? How many times have I heard Christians claim that the Old Testament no longer applies to them?

I do not think it is absurd that a Muslim can reject man-dictated jihad and still call themselves a devout Muslim. Your greater point ferries no weight: Islam does not automatically demand violence.

I personally feel it is completely pointless for individuals to identify with, and defend, a faith they might as well not even be considered to be practicing.

To me it defies the entire point of having such faiths, unless it's merely a "feel good" thing for people.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Again, it's not about judging. Good for him, I'm glad he's happy for a short time. I'm not glad about his eternal destination, though. Should I be?

Yes. But, using my life raft analogy above, we can throw a life preserver out to them but if they choose to not grab on so they can be brought aboard, there's not much we can do. Wish them well and pray that someday, they'll come around.

 

[PaulKersey]

Christians routinely gloss over, or ignore whole-cloth, large potions of the bible...has anyone reminded Creflo Dollar of the Camel and the eye of the needle? How many times have I heard Christians claim that the Old Testament no longer applies to them?

I do not think it is absurd that a Muslim can reject man-dictated jihad and still call themselves a devout Muslim. Your greater point ferries no weight: Islam does not automatically demand violence.

Ill-informed Christians may indeed gloss over apparent Bible difficulties, due to ignorance or inexperience. However, that tendency to gloss over portions of your world view is certainly not limited to the Christian world. Ill-informed atheists routinely lose academic debates to Christians like William Lane Craig.

Regarding Creflo Dollar, he is a well-known false teacher and has been vilified for years by main stream evangelicals. Yes, he drives a Rolls Royce and wants a new airplane, etc., but as I say the larger evangelical world rejects his teaching. He is in no way representative of what the Bible calls a pastor to be. To put it mildly, many leaders have criticized him.

As far as the Old Testament is concerned, all Scripture is God-breathed and profitable. However, Christians are not under law, we are under grace. The Old Testament was written specifically to the theocracy of Ancient Israel for specific purposes. Even the 10 commandments don't have application to the Christian in the church age, unless the individual commandment is repeated in the New Testament. Incidentally, all of them are repeated except for the command to honor the Sabbath. Christians worship on Sunday, the first day of the week, not the Jewish Sabbath.