Dillion Super Swager 600

[william]

nearly as fast[/I], but unless you can swage a case in less than 3 seconds, there is no way it "wins by a large margin in speed".

I'm sorry stuff like this usually doesn't bug me, but the "facts" are getting a little here.

Swage a case in less than 3 seconds? Have you ever actually used the Dillon super swage before? You just throw 2 levers I would be suprised if it took more than half that time. I don't get why you are hating on it so much? It will last forever and if something breaks Dillon will replace it for free. Anyway my ranting is over.

 

[BGDave]

It's the old question; reload to shoot or shoot to reload. For bragging on rifle grouping I've been known to weigh primers, bullets, cases and powder to the tenth grain. Now for grandson's shooting, not so much. Some of us really like the reloading process. I have used both methods to remove primer crimp. But I own a Super Swag. Both will get the job done.

 

[Broom_jm]

I don't "hate" the Super Swager 600 any more than I "hate" expensive German cars. I've already conceded that it does a fine job and it's plenty fast. As for whether or not the average processing time for each case is 1.5 seconds, when you factor loading it into the tool and removing it from the tool, I don't buy that for a "second".

Wow, this is sad. I just looked up this video on the amazing SS 600 from Dillon. In 65 seconds the video shows 10 cases being swaged. That's not exactly 1.5 seconds...more like 6.5 seconds per case.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1VQoPDik04[/ame]

OK, so I KNOW I can ream a primer pocket faster than that! Hehe. It's all good, guys. I should do a video of me reaming 10 cases...

 

[indygunguy]

You guys need to race.

Video it, "time-lapse" it, and post it here on INGO for everyone to see.

Each do 1,000 pieces of LC 556. Winner keeps all the brass and gets major bragging rights.

Come on, do it!

 

[CountryBoy19]

You guys need to race.

Video it, "time-lapse" it, and post it here on INGO for everyone to see.

Each do 1,000 pieces of LC 556. Winner keeps all the brass and gets major bragging rights.

Come on, do it!

I'm down for that, but I don't have any brass that needs swaged. I done went and swaged it all.

I have ALWAYS offered this challenge to anybody that contested the speed of the Dillon Super Swage. Nobody has ever taken me up on the offer. Broom? You gonna take me up on the offer of a race? If we can find some brass I'll do it.

But we're going to lay down some ground rules first. #1 The brass must accept a primer after the competition so the rounds will need to be primed afterwards but that won't be included in the timed part (no need to rush through priming). #2 Brass will be the same brass for both competitors, LC would probably be easiest to get. #3 Each competitor must remove the crimp in the way they would normally do it. That means for me the super swage is clamped to an elevated working platform (AKA reloading bench). Broom if you don't normally clamp your drill in a vise then for consistency you shouldn't clamp it in a vice for the competition. #4 Complete honesty is expected from the contestants as would be expected from any INGO member. #5 Missing anything else?

 

[Broom_jm]

I'm down for that, but I don't have any brass that needs swaged. I done went and swaged it all.

I have ALWAYS offered this challenge to anybody that contested the speed of the Dillon Super Swage. Nobody has ever taken me up on the offer. Broom? You gonna take me up on the offer of a race? If we can find some brass I'll do it.

But we're going to lay down some ground rules first. #1 The brass must accept a primer after the competition so the rounds will need to be primed afterwards but that won't be included in the timed part (no need to rush through priming). #2 Brass will be the same brass for both competitors, LC would probably be easiest to get. #3 Each competitor must remove the crimp in the way they would normally do it. That means for me the super swage is clamped to an elevated working platform (AKA reloading bench). Broom if you don't normally clamp your drill in a vise then for consistency you shouldn't clamp it in a vice for the competition. #4 Complete honesty is expected from the contestants as would be expected from any INGO member. #5 Missing anything else?

I agree to your challenge, with one exception:

Since we're doing a cost-benefit analysis, vis a vis, the amount of time it takes to process "X" number of brass, you have to do 20 times as many cases as I do, to reflect the greater cost of your chosen method.

OK, I'm just kidding, but seriously...we need to do 1,000 (one THOUSAND?!) to make a comparison? Who swages, or cuts away the crimp, on one thousand cases, in a single session? After we did the first 100, and I was 20 cases ahead, your only hope would be that my fingers got tired.

Are you trying to "prove" that the SS 600 is easier on your hands, when fixing the crimp on a LOT of cases in one session? How about this? SO STIPULATED! The counter-sink is still faster and it's still 1/20th the cost. For guys with a couple hundred cases to remove the crimp from, or those willing to remove crimps over several sessions, the Dillon tool is just a more expensive way to get there.

For guys like me who consider reloading to be a practical and economical means of procuring a sufficient volume of ammo with a reasonable expenditure of time AND money...tools like the SS 600 are simply not indicated. If other guys are swaging 1,000 cases every year, maybe it is.

From my perspective, it's a $100 "compensator". Take that for what you will.

 

[ghitch75]

i'll tell you what i have 1500 that need swagged......i get them back when your done

 

[billybob44]

I'm down for that, but I don't have any brass that needs swaged. I done went and swaged it all.

I have ALWAYS offered this challenge to anybody that contested the speed of the Dillon Super Swage. Nobody has ever taken me up on the offer. Broom? You gonna take me up on the offer of a race? If we can find some brass I'll do it.

But we're going to lay down some ground rules first. #1 The brass must accept a primer after the competition so the rounds will need to be primed afterwards but that won't be included in the timed part (no need to rush through priming). #2 Brass will be the same brass for both competitors, LC would probably be easiest to get. #3 Each competitor must remove the crimp in the way they would normally do it. That means for me the super swage is clamped to an elevated working platform (AKA reloading bench). Broom if you don't normally clamp your drill in a vise then for consistency you shouldn't clamp it in a vice for the competition. #4 Complete honesty is expected from the contestants as would be expected from any INGO member. #5 Missing anything else?

CBoy19-This sounds like a GREAT competition--Better than the Olympics-..

It would be neat to observe this "Challenge" in mass at the Reloaders Swap Meet coming up in Sept.!!
I would love to see Aszerigan (Andrew@ProFire) as the Top Judge, along with a few Mods as associate Judges??

What say you guys???......Bill.

PS:There will need to be a few Dillon Super Swage tools, along with a few drill bits for sale after the contest...

 

[william]

OK, I'm just kidding, but seriously...we need to do 1,000 (one THOUSAND?!) to make a comparison? Who swages, or cuts away the crimp, on one thousand cases, in a single session? After we did the first 100, and I was 20 cases ahead, your only hope would be that my fingers got tired.

Are you trying to "prove" that the SS 600 is easier on your hands, when fixing the crimp on a LOT of cases in one session? How about this? SO STIPULATED! The counter-sink is still faster and it's still 1/20th the cost. For guys with a couple hundred cases to remove the crimp from, or those willing to remove crimps over several sessions, the Dillon tool is just a more expensive way to get there.

For guys like me who consider reloading to be a practical and economical means of procuring a sufficient volume of ammo with a reasonable expenditure of time AND money...tools like the SS 600 are simply not indicated. If other guys are swaging 1,000 cases every year, maybe it is.

From my perspective, it's a $100 "compensator". Take that for what you will.

You are hilarious! Obviously if the video you posted earlier is the speed you think the Dillon SS works YOU HAVE NEVER USED ONE BEFORE AND ARE JUST HATING!

It must seem AMAZING to you that people would sit down and do 1000 cases at a time...Yes the Dillon tool is really that good. I think your race should be at least 1000 cases your cheap Chinese drill and bit will surely dull and burn out by 200 while the Dillon just keeps charging on! Maybe you can talk all those dudes that had the Dillon and then came to visit you and saw how amazing it was to ream primer pockets with a drill bit can help you out so you can keep up.

Why you want to keep hating on the Dillon just baffled me, but now I understand thanks to some other members. Post like yours are why I always make sure I get more than one source of info when I buy stuff. I heard you are a good guy Broom Jim, I wish you nothing but the best. I'm going to go oil my Quality made American tools now so that my children can use them after I'm gone. You all have a good Day.

BTW...sorry about all the bold and Italic..obviously it makes you sound more important

 

[OEF5]

I can pony up the other 500 LC for the comp if you all want.

It's all cleaned and ready to be swaged, but not trimmed.

 

[Broom_jm]

You are hilarious! Obviously if the video you posted earlier is the speed you think the Dillon SS works YOU HAVE NEVER USED ONE BEFORE AND ARE JUST HATING!

It must seem AMAZING to you that people would sit down and do 1000 cases at a time...Yes the Dillon tool is really that good. I think your race should be at least 1000 cases your cheap Chinese drill and bit will surely dull and burn out by 200 while the Dillon just keeps charging on! Maybe you can talk all those dudes that had the Dillon and then came to visit you and saw how amazing it was to ream primer pockets with a drill bit can help you out so you can keep up.

Why you want to keep hating on the Dillon just baffled me, but now I understand thanks to some other members. Post like yours are why I always make sure I get more than one source of info when I buy stuff. I heard you are a good guy Broom Jim, I wish you nothing but the best. I'm going to go oil my Quality made American tools now so that my children can use them after I'm gone. You all have a good Day.

BTW...sorry about all the bold and Italic..obviously it makes you sound more important

I'm trying to picture what someone would look like trying to go faster than that Youtube video...OUCH, there goes a finger tip! Are you suggesting you can process cases four times as fast as the guy in that video?

I am just a south-side guy with 4 kids, a mortgage, and a shooting habit I'm trying to feed. I didn't notice you were from Fishers. BMW? I officially retract all my statements about the SS600. It costs way more, so naturally, it is way better.

 

[william]

I'm trying to picture what someone would look like trying to go faster than that Youtube video...OUCH, there goes a finger tip! Are you suggesting you can process cases four times as fast as the guy in that video?

I am just a south-side guy with 4 kids, a mortgage, and a shooting habit I'm trying to feed. I didn't notice you were from Fishers. BMW? I officially retract all my statements about the SS600. It costs way more, so naturally, it is way better.

I would suggest a trained monkey could process brass faster the the dude in your video. Keep Looking Jim the TRUTH is out there!

I drive a 1997 Ford F-250. I work for a living. It's paid for and I love it. I wouldn't buy an imported car, unless it was a Ferrari...which I will never be able to afford.

The Dillon does cost more and it is way better...I hope you take Country boys challenge. Maybe after you you see the Dillon tool in person you will quit running your mouth about them online.

 

[CountryBoy19]

I agree to your challenge, with one exception:

Since we're doing a cost-benefit analysis, vis a vis, the amount of time it takes to process "X" number of brass, you have to do 20 times as many cases as I do, to reflect the greater cost of your chosen method.

OK, I'm just kidding, but seriously...we need to do 1,000 (one THOUSAND?!) to make a comparison? Who swages, or cuts away the crimp, on one thousand cases, in a single session? After we did the first 100, and I was 20 cases ahead, your only hope would be that my fingers got tired.

Are you trying to "prove" that the SS 600 is easier on your hands, when fixing the crimp on a LOT of cases in one session? How about this? SO STIPULATED! The counter-sink is still faster and it's still 1/20th the cost. For guys with a couple hundred cases to remove the crimp from, or those willing to remove crimps over several sessions, the Dillon tool is just a more expensive way to get there.

For guys like me who consider reloading to be a practical and economical means of procuring a sufficient volume of ammo with a reasonable expenditure of time AND money...tools like the SS 600 are simply not indicated. If other guys are swaging 1,000 cases every year, maybe it is.

From my perspective, it's a $100 "compensator". Take that for what you will.

I think 1k is a pretty good baseline considering most people sit down and swage a few k per session. Or do you not do that many? I normally swage 2-4k per swaging session.

I think doing it at the swap meet sounds like a fair idea so it can be seen in person. I'll have to check my schedule and double check that my wife doesn't have anything scheduled for me that day.

BTW, I'm not bashing the countersink bit method, if it works for you that's great. But I tried it and it takes too long and it starts to hurt your fingers after a while. My time is valuable and the Dillon saves me a bunch of time. I also got it several years ago for $70 so that also makes a significant difference.

 

[Broom_jm]

I think 1k is a pretty good baseline considering most people sit down and swage a few k per session. Or do you not do that many? I normally swage 2-4k per swaging session.

I think doing it at the swap meet sounds like a fair idea so it can be seen in person. I'll have to check my schedule and double check that my wife doesn't have anything scheduled for me that day.

BTW, I'm not bashing the countersink bit method, if it works for you that's great. But I tried it and it takes too long and it starts to hurt your fingers after a while. My time is valuable and the Dillon saves me a bunch of time. I also got it several years ago for $70 so that also makes a significant difference.

Show of hands: How many of you agree that "most people sit down and swage a few k per session" when you use a swaging tool? Heck, I don't even OWN a few thousand 223 cases. The way I shoot, that would last the rest of my life.

This is another one of those "Indiana" things, I guess. I haven't swaged, or removed the primer crimp, from 1,000 cases...in my lifetime, let alone a single session. Then again, I don't shoot hundreds of rounds per day, I don't own an AR or AK...the only autoloading rifle I own is an old M1 Carbine. I have removed maybe 200 primer crimps from those Carbine cases and have been reloading them for probably 5 years, now.

Where I grew up reloading, it was all about long range precision and accuracy. Nobody I knew loaded 500 or 1000 rounds at a time...heck, I've probably got less than 1,000 rounds through most of my guns. The cases I'm most interested in reloading are "different" than your basic 9mm, 40S&W, 223 and 308 stuff. You don't have primer crimps on 7-30 Waters, 6.5JDJ, 270 Winchester, 358GNR, 7.7Jap...the majority of brass I use for reloading the ~20 rounds for which I have dies has never been crimped.

If I was really into dumping mag after mag through a 223, and the brass had a crimp, I still wouldn't pay "blue" money for a tool to swage those primer pockets. I cut away the crimp on ~400 LC '06 brass this past winter in about half an hour, so probably an average of 5 seconds each. My hands weren't sore, my drill didn't die, and every primer I've put into those cases since then has slid in with just the right amount of resistance, from my perspective.

The SS600 is a fine tool and does a very good job of swaging the primer pocket. I'll stick to a much less expensive, multi-use tool that does a fine job of cutting away the rim of a crimped primer pocket. I haven't seen one thing about the Dillon tool that suggests it would work better for my needs.

 

[william]

The SS600 is a fine tool and does a very good job of swaging the primer pocket. I'll stick to a much less expensive, multi-use tool that does a fine job of cutting away the rim of a crimped primer pocket.

Should have just said that in the first place and kept all the other comments and bs about a tool you have never used to yourself. Especially it being an "Indiana" thing and having to drive a BMW in Fishers. From other posts I have read of yours it seems like you know a fair amount about reloading. I look forward to reading your posts about useful info...Hopefully you'll stop writing biased about quality products you don't like just cause they're "blue". Until you take Country Boys challenge I think I'll let this one go.

 

[fireball168]

Let's say, for the sake of argument, that you finish 5 or 10 minutes ahead of me...you now have a $100 paper weight and I've got a tool I can countersink screws with on my next wood-working project.

I buy them when I'm in the mood to process cases. I process the cases, then sell those little pieces of blue machinery for the same price I paid for them.

Show of hands: How many of you agree that "most people sit down and swage a few k per session" when you use a swaging tool?

It isn't worth starting if I'm not doing a couple thousand, or ten thousand for that matter, over the course of a weekend/couple of days. Typically there are several guys wanting to process brass, we make a production line out of it.

Heck, I don't even OWN a few thousand 223 cases.

How many primer pockets do you figure you've processed in your life?


I've spent a lot of time between countersinks, Hornady cutters and RCBS cutters chucked up in drill motors. I don't know that I'd trade any of it, even if I had younger non-arthritic hands to run them, over the Dillon anymore.

 

[Aszerigan]

I'm up for judging the contest if it's going to happen....

 

[Broom_jm]

I buy them when I'm in the mood to process cases. I process the cases, then sell those little pieces of blue machinery for the same price I paid for them.



It isn't worth starting if I'm not doing a couple thousand, or ten thousand for that matter, over the course of a weekend/couple of days. Typically there are several guys wanting to process brass, we make a production line out of it.




How many primer pockets do you figure you've processed in your life?


I've spent a lot of time between countersinks, Hornady cutters and RCBS cutters chucked up in drill motors. I don't know that I'd trade any of it, even if I had younger non-arthritic hands to run them, over the Dillon anymore.

In all fairness, you work in the gun industry, so I don't think you are "most people". I still contend that the majority of reloaders (outside of states where you can't hunt deer with a real rifle) are working with hundreds of cases, not thousands. I don't have 1,000 of any one case, and doubt I've ever had that many of a single round. I reload...why would I need that many? My reloading is primarily done for very accurate hunting loads, wildcat cartridges, and a modest volume of 9mm, 380, 30 carbine, etc. When you talk about "processed" primer pockets, it took me a second to realize you meant removing the crimp. You've done enough reloading for bench rest shooting to know that processing primer pockets means making them uniform and ensuring the flash hole is centered and deburred. From that perspective, I've done a LOT of brass in my lifetime. As far as cutting away the primer crimp...probably not more than 2,500 pieces, total. It's all in how/why you shoot, I guess.

I'm up for judging the contest if it's going to happen....

I appreciate the offer, and maybe in the spirit of Olympic competition I could give it a whirl, but in the end, I think we all know the time difference between the two methods is not going to be extreme, either way. The cost difference and the one-time use/purpose of the DS600 is what makes it of little interest, to me. If Andrew talks me into an AR and I have a need for 10,000 rounds of 223...maybe I'll convert. Until then, watch the brass shavings fly!

 

[billybob44]

I don't have 1,000 of any one case

In all due respect broom_jm, most avid reloaders-I would venture to say probably 1/2 of INGO members that are active on the reloading section, have 3-5K cases on hand of their current primary loads.

Now-that's not to say that most have that many cases that need the primer crimp removed, just brass stock in general.

BTW, I always like to read your post+know that you have a lot to offer to the reloaders here--ESPECIALLY the new ones...Bill.

 

[OEF5]

Broom

I really like your posts, you have some great info, but I'm goign to disagree with you.

I don't even reload yet, but I have almost 2000 LC brass waiting to be loaded. It's all deprimed, cleaned, needs the crimp removed then trimmed and loaded. I have another 500 or so, maybe 1000 now, mixed headstamp brass that I need to load.

When I do shoot my AR, I SHOOT it. I don't just put a couple of rounds through it, I put a bunch through it

I think that most guys that use an AR, and I mean USE, training, comp, that reload have well over 5k or more in brass. Also if they have that much I'm sure that a bunch of it is LC that's not had the crimp removed.

So your way may be faster for the work that you do, it may be cheaper for the work that you do. But for a serious AR shooter I'd rather have a real tool that was designed to do something and do it well than something that will work.