Developing marksmanship

[ChristianPatriot]

I know there some true marksmen on this forum that can give me some sound advice. The plan is to eventually step up to a purpose built precision bolt gun in 308 or 6.5 Creedmoor, but I don't think I deserve a crazy awesome rifle like that yet. I don't want to put equipment ahead of skill. I want to learn the right way. So I would like some recommendations for a budget bolt gun to develop pure unadulterated marksmanship. The first thing that came to my mind was a Savage Mark II. But here lately I've REALLY fallen in with the Mossberg MVP. 24 inch medium bull barrel in 223/556. It's affordable and accurate. And I think it would be wise to start with a round that's not a "wind cheater" like the 6.5 for example. Recommendations? Advice? Criticism?

 

[sloughfoot]

Pick out the highest quality rifle you can afford, in whatever caliber you desire, with the best glass you can afford, and go to work becoming the master of the rifle.

It isn't magic. And yes, you do deserve a great rifle in a great caliber.

When learning to be a rifleman, it is important to be certain that the stray shot cannot possibly be due to the rifle.

A high quality 22lr single shot bolt gun in 50 foot smallbore matches has been the vehicle for learning how to shoot for generations. Many of us still shoot smallbore to hone our skills. And to refresh the mind. And to not have to reload.

A National Champion has often said, the road to 1000 yards starts at 50 feet.

 

[Slawburger]

A basic Remington 700 in .308 can be purchased for $600 or less.

Note: Scope is extra.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

A basic Remington 700 in .308 can be purchased for $600 or less.

Note: Scope is extra.

I've got a Vortex Viper 6.5-20x50 MilDot on my AR, but I'm really interested in bolt actions.

 

[ryan3030]

I've had good luck with this one: https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...guns/356403-howa-1500-223-overmold-stock.html

/shameless

I have a Savage Mark II and would highly recommend it as well, it's an excellent shooter and cheap to boot.

 

[Twangbanger]

You seem to be suggesting that starting out with good equipment is somehow "cheating."

You need to change your thinking to: "Starting out with good equipment removes BS excuses and challenges me to stretch my limits." Once you have a good gun, it's up to you to be worthy of it.

And besides, in any kind of shooting sport, the sooner you stop focusing on equipment, and start focusing on the game, the more ahead you will be. If you start off with something which is known to be a less-than-adequate choice from the start, and is destined to be trade-up material later, it extends that "focusing on equipment" phase for an extra year or so. You will spend your critical first year of marksmanship development using an unnecessary amount of brain space looking around and thinking about "what should I get next?" I wouldn't encourage people to go hog-wild too soon, before they know what they really want. But if you have some network contacts in the chosen sport and you know enough about your goals to know what you need...go for it. As long as you pick something versatile, of good quality in a good caliber, without being too extremely specialized in the beginning, you should not be hurting yourself even if you decide whatever-it-is is not the game for you. Stuff like that should have good resale value, in the event the quest for marksmanship takes you in a different direction (which it can certainly do).

The MVP you mention is a hard choice to beat, also, imo. The one I shot had a trigger that broke about 2.25#, and it has fast enough rifling to allow you into the wonderful world of .223 heavy bullets, which ends up being a great reloading experience to add on top of your marksmanship quest. No reason not to learn both concurrently.

(Now, seriously...did you _really_ think we were goin' to _not_ give you permission to buy a neat-o new gun - then come back and post pics of it for us?)

 

[padawan]

This is oriented toward the youngsters... A few years ago my sons could not hit a tin pan at 25 yds. I hate to say it, but it was hours on Xbox with CoD, Halo and those types of games that made the 'sight picture' second nature to them. Fast forward to 2-3 years ago and on a Saturday afternoon... 'hey Dad can we come out and shoot with you'? Heck yes! Now we are 3-Ruger 10/22's with mods and run various ammo. The problem is they are getting picky about ammo. They can hit quarter and half dollar size spinners all day at 50 yds. The 10 year old took his first ground hog this year at 115 yrds with 1 shot from a Savage .17HMR.

 

[Slawburger]

Howa 1500 is a good rifle in .223 or .308

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Thanks for all the replies.

Twangbanger - I do find load development very intriguing. I personally don't have any experience with it but I agree with you 100% that it's a natural progression to develop those skills simultaneously. I have two very good friends that have spent a lot of time and a lot of money honing their 308 load. It's nice to have knowledgeable people to fall back on.

 

[roadrunner681]

i have a cz550 varmint with a swfa scope fixed 10 power, and i find the challenge is to shoot as good as the rifle, so if i miss its not a gear issue its totally me for sure. i think it would be wise to buy a good rifle that you can spend the time and ammo to learn, instead of saving money for a better gun later down the road. if you want a 6.5 get one, you will have more fun that way. why buy it in a different caliber than what you want cause eventually you buy another gun in that caliber at least i would.

 

[Kurr]

For a good way to just build marksmanship on the cheap.. and I know I might be laughed off the forum for this.... purely to practice and develop good skill building.... Get a good air rifle.

The lock time is longer forcing good follow through, same with the trigger control as it is much easier to throw a shot as the pellet is traveling. etc, etc.

 

[CBR1000rr]

Pick out the highest quality rifle you can afford, in whatever caliber you desire, with the best glass you can afford, and go to work becoming the master of the rifle.

It isn't magic. And yes, you do deserve a great rifle in a great caliber.

When learning to be a rifleman, it is important to be certain that the stray shot cannot possibly be due to the rifle.

A high quality 22lr single shot bolt gun in 50 foot smallbore matches has been the vehicle for learning how to shoot for generations. Many of us still shoot smallbore to hone our skills. And to refresh the mind. And to not have to reload.

A National Champion has often said, the road to 1000 yards starts at 50 feet.

I couldn't have said it better. I love shooting my rimfire rifles.

If you get a chance, hit an Appleseed. I learned more about what I was doing wrong in 2 days of shooting than I had in a year on the range with "shooters".

 

[TJ Kackowski]

Definitely attend an Appleseed if you're just starting out. Heck, attend an Appleseed if you've been shooting all your life. Come with an open mind and see what you rifle is truly capable of doing with a good solid shooting position and a G. I. web sling. You'll also learn about the events of 19 April 1775.

Here's a link to the remaining 2014 schedule. Click on any state to see what's coming up.

Appleseed - Search States for an Event

 

[bauerr3]

For a good way to just build marksmanship on the cheap.. and I know I might be laughed off the forum for this.... purely to practice and develop good skill building.... Get a good air rifle.

The lock time is longer forcing good follow through, same with the trigger control as it is much easier to throw a shot as the pellet is traveling. etc, etc.

If you get laughed off, I will join you, because before last week when I bought a Marlin 60 off an INGOer, I shot purely air rifles. I have 5 in the closet upstairs as I type this, and I have learned a lot by shooting something that requires much longer follow through. That wasn't why I came here though...

I am in the same boat as the OP, looking to get a long range bolt action for precision shooting, and possibly reloading. I had the same mindset, start small and work your way up to a rifle you deserve to shoot, but the idea of getting the equipment so that you don't have to continue upgrading makes sense...and it allows for much nicer rifles

 

[Faine]

Definitely attend an Appleseed if you're just starting out. Heck, attend an Appleseed if you've been shooting all your life. Come with an open mind and see what you rifle is truly capable of doing with a good solid shooting position and a G. I. web sling. You'll also learn about the events of 19 April 1775.

Here's a link to the remaining 2014 schedule. Click on any state to see what's coming up.

Appleseed - Search States for an Event

THIS!

Marksmanship isn't about the rifle, it's about the rifleman. Good equipment can get you part of the way there, but it takes knowledge, skill, and experience to make it all come together. IMHO save your hard earned cash for now, if you don't have a 10/22 grab one, get a scope for it, or not, get a sling and go to Appleseed. There you will acquire knowledge and begin to gather experience, which will be a solid foundation for the growth of your skill. Then once you've done your due diligence there and have had more time to think on what you truly want, caliber, optic, rifle, you can make a more educated decision and know your knowledge, skill and experience will transfer to your new platform.

 

[kb66]

When learning to be a rifleman, it is important to be certain that the stray shot cannot possibly be due to the rifle.

A high quality 22lr single shot bolt gun in 50 foot smallbore matches has been the vehicle for learning how to shoot for generations. Many of us still shoot smallbore to hone our skills. And to refresh the mind. And to not have to reload.

A National Champion has often said, the road to 1000 yards starts at 50 feet.

+1

Get a Remington 40x in 22lr and you will be shooting the same platform that you can get in any caliber. Then get some good match ammunition, I'm not talking Walmart stuff but something you can be sure that a flier is probably not the gun or the ammo. Good 22lr ammo is not cheap but it is still cheaper than good .308 and is every bit as important as the rifle you are shooting.

Marksmanship is about being consistent. A good bolt rifle will be more consistent at putting the round in the chamber the same way every time and good match ammunition will be more consistent in bullet weight, powder charge, etc.

Once you know that your rifle and ammo is consistent, then you can work on yourself being consistent...and that's the hard part.

 

[Leo]

the sooner you stop focusing on equipment, and start focusing on the game, the more ahead you will be.

This is a statement with more wisdom than most people can ever imagine.

The worst shooter (but a really nice guy) that I ever knew always had the latest, greatest state of the art equipment. He owned not one but TWO, TUBB 2000 custom ordered match rifles in exotic calibers with the finest of sights and other options, but I beat him by my second match with a $70 surplus swedish Mauser. Without spending much money, I invested lots of time in off hand dry firing, building good positions with a sling, learning all I could from books written by or about champions, and finally live fire practice. To keep the price down, a lot of my live fire practice was with a really good air rifle and a good .22.

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Not to threadjack myself, which doesn't sound good at all, but maybe if people want to post links to websites that have helped them or give book titles of their go-to shooting manuals. That would be awesome. I definitely need to get to an Appleseed too.

 

[sloughfoot]

Zediker Publishing

JarHeadTop.com

Www.odcmp.org

 

[ChristianPatriot]

Zediker Publishing

JarHeadTop.com

Www.odcmp.org

Thanks much.