Deer Rifle for New IN Rules

[Stimp]

Hello all,

I am looking for your answers/opinions on a new deer rifle. I currently use a 44mag primarily but am tossing around the idea of another deer gun. I know the 44 mag will do the job just fine along with a shotgun but I want something different for the the collection. I have been interested with the 458 socom mainly but am open to your ideas.... I do all of my own reloading also. So ammunition prices aren't as big as a factor rather than availability of components. My question to you is 2 parts. 1) If I go with the 458 is it better to just buy the upper or can you build it? 2) If you feel like the 458 is the wrong avenue.... what would you suggest (taking into account the new IN rules/case parameters) for this genre of firearm. I have not played around with wildcats myself but If this is what you recommend, would you also be able to provide some wildcat information then?

Thank you for your time and input.
I look forward to your suggestions.

 

[kludge]

What is your preferred rifle type? Lever, single shot, bolt, AR?

For a .458 SOCOM upper I would just buy it rather than trying to build it. The .458 has similar ballistics to a modern .45-70. Another similar round that will now be legal for 2012 is the .450 Bushmaster.

It would be slightly cheaper to reload for the Bushy, I think, since it can use pistol bullets like the XTP-Mag from Hornady. Hornady also has a pointy bullet, 250gr, if I recall correctly.

 

[Stimp]

The 44 I use now is a lever. I'm intrigued by the 458 AR style or a bolt. Not that I need more than one shot but I like having the capacity for sighting/practicing.

I'll look into the 450 Bushmaster. Thank you for the input.

 

[phatgemi]

How much you wanna spend????

 

[Glock_Man_21]

I'll be trying out my .458 socom next season, just moved to this state and found out it was legal. Being from Colorado used to using my .300 wsm.

 

[standslanted]

Hello all,

I am looking for your answers/opinions on a new deer rifle. I currently use a 44mag primarily but am tossing around the idea of another deer gun. I know the 44 mag will do the job just fine along with a shotgun but I want something different for the the collection. I have been interested with the 458 socom mainly but am open to your ideas.... I do all of my own reloading also. So ammunition prices aren't as big as a factor rather than availability of components. My question to you is 2 parts. 1) If I go with the 458 is it better to just buy the upper or can you build it? 2) If you feel like the 458 is the wrong avenue.... what would you suggest (taking into account the new IN rules/case parameters) for this genre of firearm. I have not played around with wildcats myself but If this is what you recommend, would you also be able to provide some wildcat information then?

Thank you for your time and input.
I look forward to your suggestions.

I've been waiting for my RRA 458 upper for over two months now, but cant wait to get it

 

[firek920]

Before you make any purchase for a new gun make sure that the new rules are passed. I contacted the state Monday and nothing has been yet. Also are you looking for some range or just good old up close nock down power? Anything over 100yards dont even think 458. As for buying or building well unless you have to tools and the skill I wouldnt even think of building an upper lower absolutly.

 

[kludge]

Other options for the AR include the .358 WSSM and the .358 Gremlin. (search for BFG Cartridges)

In a bolt gun...

the aforementioned .358 WSSM is "popular" (I rebarreled a 7mm WSM Savage for mine). The .358 Gremlin will also work, but you need to rebarrel something in 7.62x39 (Savage, Ruger, CZ) or swap the bolt face to a "PPC" bolt face.

In 2012 the max case length goes from 1.625" to 1.8" (we hope) so that will allow the .460 S&W magnum (or wildcats based on it) or a shortened WSM case (or perhaps a SAUM, RCM, etc.)

Like phatgemi said, how much you wanna spend? My bolt rifle cost me $750 ($450 for the donor rifle and $300 for the barrel/smith work/shipping). If you need custom reloading dies add $160-$180. If you need a forming die, add some more. If you can't rent/borrow a reamer add $200. Plus $60 for go/no-go gauges; $100 if they are non-standard.

A .35 caliber like the .357 Max or .357 Herrett will get you the same range (+/-3" MPBR at 200 yards) as the .45's with less recoil.

Not knowing the details of the bullet design of the 250gr FTX bullet for the Bushmaster, you might be able to stretch it to 250 yards with a top of the back hold.

 

[FredMcIntire]

I think I responded to this under another thread. The .357 Maximum loaded with 185 grain flat nose, gas checked cast lead bullets over 20 grains of H110. It will shoot 1 inch groups at 100 yards all day long. I shoot a single shot H&R Handi Rifle. Its a deer hammer ! The gun, less than $250, plus $25 to ream it to Maximum. Bullets, about $24 per 100. Brass, $20 per 100. Dies, $40 or less. Powder, Hodgdon H110 or Accurate A1680 or Accurate #9. $20 to $24. All the components are readily available, low cost, low recoil. Its my go to gun for Indiana deer hunting, period.

Good Luck !

 

[kludge]

Yup, the 357 Max is maximum bang for the buck, IMO.

 

[phatgemi]

Wouldn't mind a .357 Max but I already had a Ruger Redhawk in .44 so a H&R handirifle in .44 mag matched it perfectly. I then reamed the rifle to .445 Super Mag. NIce load although brass was a bit hard to find a first. But it still shoots .44 special and/or mag just fine. I haven't really wrung out the ballastics for the .445sm but I am betting it's a least a 200 yd rifle with quite a bit more ooomph than the .357. But a deer would never know the difference. I wish I had plenty money but I find myself probably in common company that can't invest well over a thousand dollars for a "real" Indiana deer rifle.

 

[standslanted]

Anything over 100yards dont even think 458.

I wouldn't say that, but one should expect good accuracy out to 200 yards. I've seen deer taken with the 458 at around 250yards.

 

[Broom_jm]

I wouldn't say that, but one should expect good accuracy out to 200 yards. I've seen deer taken with the 458 at around 250yards.

Depending on how the gun is sighted in and what kind of reticle is used, that would be a pretty neat trick.

A 300gr bullet out of a 458 SOCOM with a 20" barrel is not going to generate much more than about 1,850fps. Sight that in 3" high at 100 yards and it will be zero at 150, 8" low at 200 and almost 21" low at 250 yards. (FWIW, the 445SM, shooting a 240gr bullet at 2000fps is flatter, dropping only 6" at 200 yards, with less recoil.) Given the option of a 445SM or 458SOCOM, I'd take the Super Mag all day long.

However, there are much simpler, and less painful, ways to get to 200 yards with an Indiana-legal deer rifle, particularly if you are a handloader. The 35WSM 1.8" is the hottest option, but a little on the expensive side. (No more than the 458 SOCOM in an AR!) Check with BFG for the best way to get there, w/o breaking the bank with a full-on custom 'cat on your dime. If you are perfectly happy with 200 yards, at most, the 357Max, 357 Herrett, 35 Remington-short and 358 Winchester-short will all get you there, no problem. They will be less expensive than just about any other option.

 

[Aaronhome27]

Wouldn't mind a .357 Max but I already had a Ruger Redhawk in .44 so a H&R handirifle in .44 mag matched it perfectly. I then reamed the rifle to .445 Super Mag. NIce load although brass was a bit hard to find a first. But it still shoots .44 special and/or mag just fine. I haven't really wrung out the ballastics for the .445sm but I am betting it's a least a 200 yd rifle with quite a bit more ooomph than the .357. But a deer would never know the difference. I wish I had plenty money but I find myself probably in common company that can't invest well over a thousand dollars for a "real" Indiana deer rifle.

That is exactly the route I have been considering for my 44 H&R. I load tons of .44 already. I figure since it basically uses the same components and dies, minus the brass, I could load the 445 Sm for me and still let the kids use 44 when they use the rifle. This is if the accuracy with all loads stays the same without adjusting the scope. I just started doing research on this round and for where I hunt, under 200 yard shots, it may just be the ticket to extend the range of a 44 to my max shooting distances with a bit less drop than my 44. Now all I have to do is to find a reliable smith to ream the H&R I already have.

 

[IndianaSlim]

I slapped a 458 upper on a lower this year and absolutely love it. I bought some 325 gr plastic tipped ammo from andrew at profire (sight sponsor) Mine shoots 2" high at 100 4" low at 200 and 18" low at 250 all while shooting very close to 1 Moa. Far less recoil than an 1100 20 ga. 5 deer with this gun this year. Closest was 10 ft. Farthest was 253 yards. Held top of the back and smoked her. Bottom line. This thing rocks!

As far as checking on laws the 458 has been legal since they passed the rifle law a few years ago.

 

[RBrianHarless]

Got a buddy who uses the .458 SOCOM and absolutely loves it. He is on INGO under the name Picit. His profile pic is of a deer he harvested with the .458 SOCOM. Ammunition is really salty. Take care and good luck on your quest.

 

[troutline]

If the 1.8 passes I will trim my 35 REM brass down to 1.8 and try that. Should be able to shoot 200 yds. A little more than i shoot with my 77/44.

 

[hntrdav]

If the 1.8 passes I will trim my 35 REM brass down to 1.8 and try that. Should be able to shoot 200 yds. A little more than i shoot with my 77/44.

It works already tried it last summer.

 

[phatgemi]

That is exactly the route I have been considering for my 44 H&R. I load tons of .44 already. I figure since it basically uses the same components and dies, minus the brass, I could load the 445 Sm for me and still let the kids use 44 when they use the rifle. This is if the accuracy with all loads stays the same without adjusting the scope. I just started doing research on this round and for where I hunt, under 200 yard shots, it may just be the ticket to extend the range of a 44 to my max shooting distances with a bit less drop than my 44. Now all I have to do is to find a reliable smith to ream the H&R I already have.

Really doesn't take much to ream. You can rent a reamer and do it in about 10 minutes. Just follow directions, use good cutting oil and don't cut too deep.

Or you can get a smith to do it easily. Only problem locally is finding a reamer. There is a company that rents them out.....

 

[Stimp]

Thank you all for the help so far. It is good to have a recourse like this for information. As far as cost... I don't want to break the bank but I understand there will be a good chunk of change here. I noticed on RRA the 458 is ~700 plus the cost of brass and dies then. This would be my max investment for now. If I could find a cheaper alternative with close ballistics that would be great. I do reload which will cut costs but I want to be sure brass and dies are available for the firearm.
As far as range.... I am looking towards ~250s or so while still providing nock down power. ( I understand these shots are not typical but with practice I want the ability to make this shot)
I do want this gun for IN deer hunting upmost but would like it to be versatile and be able to be used for hog hunting and other big game.
I will research more some of your suggestions and try to make an educated decision as wait to save up for this investment.
Any other info you guys would like to add would be great and I will keep checking back in for any other suggestions.