Deep Thoughts. Or Thots. Whatever.

[jamil]

So, I was going to post this in the General Political/Salma Hayek thread, but then I'd have to drop my newly adopted affectation for that thread.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/opinion/andrei-sakharov-essay-soviet-union.html

Re-visit to the th 1968 Sakharov essay. Which can be found here:
A.Sakharov. Progress, Coexistence and Intellectual Freedom | ????????????? ??????????? '???? ???????? ???????'

Warning: it is a long read, and in the format of a scientific paper (sorta), written by a scientist, for a completely different audience than the one which read it in the NY Times in 1968.

Sounds interesting. I'll have to give that a read when I have some extra time.

 

[T.Lex]

Sounds interesting. I'll have to give that a read when I have some extra time.

I think you'll find it interesting, especially if you are familiar with (or do some quick googling) of Sakharov's personal history, before and after his writings were published in the West.

It touches on some of the things we've discussed with regard to socialism over the years.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Garfield was ahead of his time.

 

[indiucky]

I think you'll find it interesting, especially if you are familiar with (or do some quick googling) of Sakharov's personal history, before and after his writings were published in the West.

It touches on some of the things we've discussed with regard to socialism over the years.

 

[Fargo]

He's got that thousand yard stare of a fellow who is about to get "Russian drunk".

 

[jamil]

I put some thought into the question...not the thot question. When does the left go too far? It's really the right too, because the same thing applies. And it's not the place Peterson thought it should be for either the left or the right. So, where do people go too far?

I think the place that defines the extremes isn't so much a taboo not to be broken, or even a limit to ideas we dare not think. There isn't really a wrongthink that puts us in the place too far left or right. Public debate is typically the best way to keep ideas sane, so thinking and freely saying anything should appropriately regulate all that.

No, the place too far has more to do with the people who want to change the world, but especially how they propose to change it. You want to change the world? Fine. But, if you want to change the world, consider that you're just one person out of billions.

Why be so considerate when there is so much change to be imposed? Well, what if the world doesn't want to change? Or at least, what if the world doesn't want to change into what you want it to be? What if your Utopia is actually a horrible dreadful place to everyone else, because your imagination failed to predict how bad it might be for many people? What if you think you're so ***damn smarter than everyone else, but in your Utopia, you oppress, intentionally or not, the people who disagree with you? Do you think you know so much better that they'll all just be better off with YOUR oppression than the one you perceive you're saving them from? What if, to get your way, you have to impose your ideas on the people who disagree with you, rather than just using persuasive reasoning get people to see that your change actually makes the world better? Because, what the **** do you know that I should be imposed upon with your worldview? Make your case, ******* or STFU.

I'm not saying that you don't get to want to change the world. I'm saying that there is a vitally important question to consider before embarking on your world changing quest, that combines all the above considerations into one: What if you're full of ****?

Want to ban words? Well, maybe **** you is the best response to that. Who the **** are you to say which words I should be permitted to say? Or, maybe you think this: people with your skin color are superior to people of other skin colors? Think it. But **** you if you think you get to impose that on people. Think women can have penises? Think couples should only be allowed to **** up and down? Think there is one true god, 10 gods, no gods, everyone's a god. Whatever. Fine. Believe all or any of that you want. Your belief is the personal sovereignty no one has the right to take from you. Believe it. Practice it even. But the bar should be really ***damn high to save the rest of us from the imposition of whatever particular **** you're full of.

So. I think where I would say the fringes begin is where people start imposing the change they want on people who don't want it. The Christian baker doesn't want to bake a wedding cake with two dudes. The two dudes want to get married whether you like it or not. How about neither impose their beliefs on the other?

Seems to me the solution to that is pretty simple. We've heard this corny line before. If you want to change the world, be the change you want. Maybe corny, but it's true enough, and it's not and imposition. Activism is fine. It's beneficial. Even though the world is a way better place than it was many years ago, there are still problems. There is still a lot of suffering and poverty and oppression and tyranny and hard knocks that it would be nice to change some things. So go be an activist for the change you want, all you want, but after you've become an effective example of the change you want. But ask yourself, am "I full of ****?"

The answer to that question is easily obtained. Convince me and others in the public square that 1) your ideas make the world better, 2) that you believe in your ideas enough to live them yourself. And if you really are full of ****, you'll get plenty of feedback. And if you're not full of ****, then maybe people will incorporate your ideas in their own lives. But imposing your change by throwing bike locks at people you disagree with, or mob-shaming people, de-platforming them, and so on, certainly won't affect the change you want. It will just oppress the people you disagree with. Then people will just keep their ideas to themselves, and their darkest ideas will fester unchallenged.

Rhetorical "you" implied.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

"I'd love to change the world." - Alvin Lee

[video=youtube;ZyaFeDlJJAk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyaFeDlJJAk[/video]