COVID OMICRON Thread

[Ingomike]

Here we go

Coronovirus III

NO! You need to take a Lysol can into a very small room, like a walkin closet or bathroom. Empty the entire can into the air (2 cans if you have them) just like a bug fogger. Then stand in the room and inhale deeply at least 10 time while standing. Then again while sitting, and one more time...

www.indianagunowners.com

Point out that "no working economy" means "no food".
And if they don't live on a farm, they might start to get hungry.
Also, hospitals use MANY things that won't be available soon.

It certainly does make those who recognize what is and isn’t going on feel smart. But in reality it is a proof of how dumb the sheep and TPTB are not to understand don’t make anything, don’t have anything…

 

[rhamersley]

Leftist Who Keeps Taking COVID Tests Says He Can Quit Anytime

RICHMOND, VA—A local family held an impromptu intervention for their son, Richard Chag, 35, who has been taking up to 24 COVID tests a day.

babylonbee.com

 

[BugI02]

Been there, done that. It's all good.




#507 in handy link form

Alrighty, then

I've done some poking around the Indiana Covid 19 Dashboard and Courier Presses 'Covid 19 Hospital Capacity in Vanderburgh County and Surrounding Area'

First the graphic posted by you. It states that it includes all Deaconess Hospitals plus Women's Hospital. As near as I can make out, that would be deaconess, Deaconess Henderson, Deaconess Gibson and Womens

Available data shows those hospitals have a total of available beds of 919 and a total of ICU beds of 152. The graphic is only showing Covid positive patients by its own admission, and data shows that all the hospitals in total have 919 beds, so people in hospital who have tested positive for covid are 108 ÷ 919 = about 11.8% of hospital capacity is taken up by covid positive patients

ICU percentage is 47 ÷ 152 = 30.9% of ICU patients have tested positive for Covid

First concern would be why the data is presented in the most covid narrative supportive manner in the graphic. Subsidiary concern was I never came across that graphic except in material presented by a television station (channel 14) so am curious if Deaconess even put it out in that form or if they did why they were concentrating as usual just on covid testing status without giving the information on what they were actually hospitalized for - the usual covid for/with dichotomy

The next bits are based on different data, that of the Indiana dashboard for Vanderburgh county. As far as I can tell, only Deaconess from your graphic is actually in the county and thus included. I did not try to mix in the data from surrounding counties because I don't know the area. The Courier Press data shows only Deaconess, Ascension St. Vincent Evansville and Select Specialty hospitals Evansville as being in the county. the dashboard does not break its data down further than county level

The Indiana Covid dashboard shows 233 ICU beds available in Vanderburgh county, and on the 28th of December (the indicated day in your graphic) 24.9% were in use for Covid 19 patients (those actually being treated for Covid) while 58.4% were in use for Non-Covid patients and 16.7% were available

If the aggregate figures hold true for Deaconess, then 115 x 0.249 = about 29 of their ICU beds are actually taken up by Covid patients and the reporting of covid positive patients merely overstates the case by 1.6x

Patients on vents show similar shading of the data. Indiana dashboard data shows of 353 vents only 9.3% of vents were assigned to covid patients with 19% non-covid and 71.7% available. Thus, again assuming the county wide demographic is applicable, that represents 353 x 0.093 = 33 covid vent patients.

I couldn't easily find a total number of vents available at just Deaconess, but applying the county wide percentage to their showing 28 covid positive patients on vents, it works out to possibly only 28 x 0.093 = 3 actually being covid patients, for an overstatement of that case of over 9x

So, first approximation of why so many unvaccinated patients are represented in the data you posted is that indeed many patients who are not sick with covid are still turned up in admissions testing. It is possible that channel 14 or the hospital system or both wish to hype the 'crisis' and that certainly should not be particularly surprising to anyone. Your point of a high level of unvaccinated in that data would still be valid, but the idea that vaccination protects against illness or death is significantly weakened. It is highly likely many of the people admitted for other reasons never even were aware that they were positive until the hospital tested them

Second approximation, the data shows that Deaconess itself has from 2 to 4x the utilization percentage of the other hospitals. The ethnic breakdown shows that only about 54% of the patient population is white. Is it possible that Deaconess receives a much greater percentage of people who do not have a physician and use the hospital and its ER as a primary care provider. That would present a sample selection bias due to a larger percentage of the people presenting likely being unvaccinated

Third approximation, you presented skewed information on a county that has a fully vaccinated (2 doses) percentage of 54.43% and a weekly case rate of 392/100000 while dismissing out of hand the Irish data I presented of a country with a vaccination rate of well over 90%, and a county within that country with a staggering 99.7% vaccination rate that had a case rate of 1448/100000 (that's 3.7x as high) and somehow feel that the Indiana data makes the case that vaccines work while the Irish data can be ignored for some reason when they are using the same vaccines we are

I don't actually have enough detailed information to tell you why such a high percentage of the unvaccinated show up in Vanderburgh county, because first I would need detailed enough demographic data to make a good estimate of the expected rate of positivity in a non-random sampling from among that population. Only with a good approximation of that could I make a determination of whether or not the data exceeds what would be expected

You can certainly consider my presentation of the Irish data has an attached agenda, just don't pretend the same isn't true on your end

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Alrighty, then

I've done some poking around the Indiana Covid 19 Dashboard and Courier Presses 'Covid 19 Hospital Capacity in Vanderburgh County and Surrounding Area'

First the graphic posted by you. It states that it includes all Deaconess Hospitals plus Women's Hospital. As near as I can make out, that would be deaconess, Deaconess Henderson, Deaconess Gibson and Womens

Available data shows those hospitals have a total of available beds of 919 and a total of ICU beds of 152. The graphic is only showing Covid positive patients by its own admission, and data shows that all the hospitals in total have 919 beds, so people in hospital who have tested positive for covid are 108 ÷ 919 = about 11.8% of hospital capacity is taken up by covid positive patients

ICU percentage is 47 ÷ 152 = 30.9% of ICU patients have tested positive for Covid

First concern would be why the data is presented in the most covid narrative supportive manner in the graphic. Subsidiary concern was I never came across that graphic except in material presented by a television station (channel 14) so am curious if Deaconess even put it out in that form or if they did why they were concentrating as usual just on covid testing status without giving the information on what they were actually hospitalized for - the usual covid for/with dichotomy

The next bits are based on different data, that of the Indiana dashboard for Vanderburgh county. As far as I can tell, only Deaconess from your graphic is actually in the county and thus included. I did not try to mix in the data from surrounding counties because I don't know the area. The Courier Press data shows only Deaconess, Ascension St. Vincent Evansville and Select Specialty hospitals Evansville as being in the county. the dashboard does not break its data down further than county level

The Indiana Covid dashboard shows 233 ICU beds available in Vanderburgh county, and on the 28th of December (the indicated day in your graphic) 24.9% were in use for Covid 19 patients (those actually being treated for Covid) while 58.4% were in use for Non-Covid patients and 16.7% were available

If the aggregate figures hold true for Deaconess, then 115 x 0.249 = about 29 of their ICU beds are actually taken up by Covid patients and the reporting of covid positive patients merely overstates the case by 1.6x

Patients on vents show similar shading of the data. Indiana dashboard data shows of 353 vents only 9.3% of vents were assigned to covid patients with 19% non-covid and 71.7% available. Thus, again assuming the county wide demographic is applicable, that represents 353 x 0.093 = 33 covid vent patients.

I couldn't easily find a total number of vents available at just Deaconess, but applying the county wide percentage to their showing 28 covid positive patients on vents, it works out to possibly only 28 x 0.093 = 3 actually being covid patients, for an overstatement of that case of over 9x

So, first approximation of why so many unvaccinated patients are represented in the data you posted is that indeed many patients who are not sick with covid are still turned up in admissions testing. It is possible that channel 14 or the hospital system or both wish to hype the 'crisis' and that certainly should not be particularly surprising to anyone. Your point of a high level of unvaccinated in that data would still be valid, but the idea that vaccination protects against illness or death is significantly weakened. It is highly likely many of the people admitted for other reasons never even were aware that they were positive until the hospital tested them

Second approximation, the data shows that Deaconess itself has from 2 to 4x the utilization percentage of the other hospitals. The ethnic breakdown shows that only about 54% of the patient population is white. Is it possible that Deaconess receives a much greater percentage of people who do not have a physician and use the hospital and its ER as a primary care provider. That would present a sample selection bias due to a larger percentage of the people presenting likely being unvaccinated

Third approximation, you presented skewed information on a county that has a fully vaccinated (2 doses) percentage of 54.43% and a weekly case rate of 392/100000 while dismissing out of hand the Irish data I presented of a country with a vaccination rate of well over 90%, and a county within that country with a staggering 99.7% vaccination rate that had a case rate of 1448/100000 (that's 3.7x as high) and somehow feel that the Indiana data makes the case that vaccines work while the Irish data can be ignored for some reason when they are using the same vaccines we are

I don't actually have enough detailed information to tell you why such a high percentage of the unvaccinated show up in Vanderburgh county, because first I would need detailed enough demographic data to make a good estimate of the expected rate of positivity in a non-random sampling from among that population. Only with a good approximation of that could I make a determination of whether or not the data exceeds what would be expected

You can certainly consider my presentation of the Irish data has an attached agenda, just don't pretend the same isn't true on your end

Wow, you did some number crunching... I just finished my normal "day" job and am getting ready to leave for my part-time job I work a couple nights a week, so I won't be able to respond for awhile, but I did want to acknowledge your post and your work.

Very interesting!

 

[mmpsteve]

This is a question and answer I received on the other thread, "Indiana is Dead Last ...", and a link that addresses a claim of high non-covid deaths in Indiana. I found it interesting. My question is in blue. One quote from the article that caught my eye was, "Most of the claims for deaths being filed are not classified as COVID-19 deaths, Davison said."

Here's the link that talks about it:
https://www.thecentersquare.com/ind...cle_71473b12-6b1e-11ec-8641-5b2c06725e2c.html

I'm retired pharma scientist. I'm well studied, educated, and 25 years in the pharma business. I'm not vaxed, I don't wear a mask, and I don't care how many people are around me. My life, my choice - you make your choice. Part of being a free American.

Welcome to INGO Sir. As an un-vaxed (unwashed) individual, I'm following all these threads with interest. Would you care to expound on the reasons behind your decision? If not, I understand, but being retired, they can't very well cancel you like they are the other doctors and scientists who don't tow the line.
.

Hi Steve, To start with, I was hesitant to take anything not approved. 2/3 of all pharma product applications fail, so there was only a 33% chance of working / or working without adverse reactions. As time progressed, a quick look at VEARS was all I needed to convince myself that this was / is a failed application. There are dozens of peer reviewed studies that show complete recoveries with common inexpensive therapeutics. Now, in today's news, there is a monstrous 40% increase in Indiana deaths under 65 with only a small percentage being covid. Hmmm, think I made the right choice. I am retired, but if I weren't, and required to take the jab, I would simply have to find another means of income vs the risky results of poison death shot. Youngsters are immortal, (like I used to be), and they just don't get it... Kinda sad.

.

 

[qwerty]

For those wanting some good hospital data for Indiana, the Regenstrief Institute has some great data by county: https://www.regenstrief.org/covid-dashboard/

Some overall statewide data for Beds, Vents, and ICU: https://datastudio.google.com/u/0/reporting/9dcccb79-da8c-40a5-9551-1a0ca5df5d25/page/sJuWB

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

 

[kickbacked]

For those wanting some good hospital data for Indiana, the Regenstrief Institute has some great data by county: https://www.regenstrief.org/covid-dashboard/

Some overall statewide data for Beds, Vents, and ICU: https://datastudio.google.com/u/0/reporting/9dcccb79-da8c-40a5-9551-1a0ca5df5d25/page/sJuWB

this is interesting. I wonder why females 20-29 have a much larger hospitalization rate than males in their 20's?

 

[Rosenbah]

Yes, Cloth masks did not work in 1918 and they don't work today. It's an aerosol and they are too small - it's like using a chain-link fence to keep mosquitos at bay,

Also, who has downloaded and looked at the VARERS database? It's chock full of adverse reactions and death due to the jab.

But if you want it, get it. Just don't force it on me.

 

[Alpo]

You have some catching up to do on the older Covid threads.

Also will help you know the players.

VAERS has been discussed since early 2020. I'm not going to spoil your leisure reading hours by summarizing how the folks around here feel about that data base.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Alrighty, then

I've done some poking around the Indiana Covid 19 Dashboard and Courier Presses 'Covid 19 Hospital Capacity in Vanderburgh County and Surrounding Area'

First the graphic posted by you. It states that it includes all Deaconess Hospitals plus Women's Hospital. As near as I can make out, that would be deaconess, Deaconess Henderson, Deaconess Gibson and Womens

That is my understanding also.

Available data shows those hospitals have a total of available beds of 919 and a total of ICU beds of 152. The graphic is only showing Covid positive patients by its own admission, and data shows that all the hospitals in total have 919 beds, so people in hospital who have tested positive for covid are 108 ÷ 919 = about 11.8% of hospital capacity is taken up by covid positive patients

My math (using the week of Dec 24 data reported here) indicates that the 4 Deaconess Hospitals have 775 total beds (570+124+59+22) for the week of 12/24, so I come up with 108/775 = 13.9%.

ICU percentage is 47 ÷ 152 = 30.9% of ICU patients have tested positive for Covid

My math shows the same.

First concern would be why the data is presented in the most covid narrative supportive manner in the graphic.

It reports the numbers above then shows them in a pictogram... the only "narrative" I can see in the picture is that the unvaccinated are red and the vaccinated are blue... which seems "political".

Subsidiary concern was I never came across that graphic except in material presented by a television station (channel 14) so am curious if Deaconess even put it out in that form or if they did why they were concentrating as usual just on covid testing status without giving the information on what they were actually hospitalized for - the usual covid for/with dichotomy

Like you, I've only seen that reporting format in the local news. Like you I've found no publicly released census data from Deaconess, but do know the CEO of Deaconess occasionally does press briefings and presents similar information/numbers, but not that graphic.

I've also seen on the Deaconess site that local/national news organizations can present their credentials for non-public news releases.

The next bits are based on different data, that of the Indiana dashboard for Vanderburgh county. As far as I can tell, only Deaconess from your graphic is actually in the county and thus included. I did not try to mix in the data from surrounding counties because I don't know the area. The Courier Press data shows only Deaconess, Ascension St. Vincent Evansville and Select Specialty hospitals Evansville as being in the county. the dashboard does not break its data down further than county level

The Indiana Covid dashboard shows 233 ICU beds available in Vanderburgh county, and on the 28th of December (the indicated day in your graphic) 24.9% were in use for Covid 19 patients (those actually being treated for Covid) while 58.4% were in use for Non-Covid patients and 16.7% were available

When you select Vanderburgh County on the Indiana COVID dashboard, the case, test, positivity and deaths are for Vanderburgh County, however the hospital and ICU statistics are for IDOH Region 10. This is region 10 which encompasses much more than Vand. Cty.

If the aggregate figures hold true for Deaconess, then 115 x 0.249 = about 29 of their ICU beds are actually taken up by Covid patients and the reporting of covid positive patients merely overstates the case by 1.6x

The aggregate covers a large area and Deaconess would only conform to the region average if it was average within the region. It's not. Deaconess Midtown and Womens/Gateway are the premiere system within the region. Even within Evansville... Deaconess ICU occupancy is 90-100% full, while the other big hospital in town, Ascension St. Vincent was at 44% for the week of 12/24.

Fewer of the open ICU beds in the region are at Deaconess versus the region average... currently the dashboard shows 16.9% of the 236 ICU beds as open, or about 40 beds. Latest Deaconess data (12/24) shows 12.8 average empty beds out of 115 total or 11.1%.

So, throughout region 10, the open ICU beds is 16.9%, Deaconess is 11.1%, that is a ratio of 1.52X, so 1.6X isn't far off.

ETA: Excluding Deaconess, the region's ICU open beds rate is 27.2/121= 22.5%, over 2X.

Patients on vents show similar shading of the data. Indiana dashboard data shows of 353 vents only 9.3% of vents were assigned to covid patients with 19% non-covid and 71.7% available. Thus, again assuming the county wide demographic is applicable, that represents 353 x 0.093 = 33 covid vent patients.

I couldn't easily find a total number of vents available at just Deaconess, but applying the county wide percentage to their showing 28 covid positive patients on vents, it works out to possibly only 28 x 0.093 = 3 actually being covid patients, for an overstatement of that case of over 9x

That math makes no sense... it's like saying 33 vents in use times 0.093 means only 3 vents are in use. Huh?

I could see you arguing that 28/33 equates to 85% of the vents used for COVID in region 10 purporting to being at the 4 Deaconess hospitals. No idea if the most serious cases are transferred to Deaconess.

So, first approximation of why so many unvaccinated patients are represented in the data you posted is that indeed many patients who are not sick with covid are still turned up in admissions testing.

IIRC, patients can be admitted with up to 24 ICD-10 diagnostics codes. Only one is the principal admission diagnosis code. Admitted FOR COVID and admitted WITH COVID are not the same. Many moons ago I looked this up, there is a range of ICD-10 codes (like respiratory distress, etc) that combined with COVID positive equals hospitalized for COVID. If you're in a motorcycle wreck and admitted because of multiple broken bones, even with a positive COVID test, you aren't reported as a COVID hospitalization per the reporting guidelines I read.

I remember arguing at length with Mike about pneumonia with COVID...

It is possible that channel 14 or the hospital system or both wish to hype the 'crisis' and that certainly should not be particularly surprising to anyone. Your point of a high level of unvaccinated in that data would still be valid, but the idea that vaccination protects against illness or death is significantly weakened. It is highly likely many of the people admitted for other reasons never even were aware that they were positive until the hospital tested them

Second approximation, the data shows that Deaconess itself has from 2 to 4x the utilization percentage of the other hospitals. The ethnic breakdown shows that only about 54% of the patient population is white. Is it possible that Deaconess receives a much greater percentage of people who do not have a physician and use the hospital and its ER as a primary care provider. That would present a sample selection bias due to a larger percentage of the people presenting likely being unvaccinated

The Deaconess system is diverse... Midtown is downtown, Womens/Gateway is at the edge of the county between the Eastside and Newburgh (affluent areas), Henderson is just across the river in Kentucky and Gibson is in the sticks of GibCo.

Ascension St. Vincent total ICU utilization is 44%, that is below the region non-COVID utilization rate. Sounds like they might have closed their COVID ICU to allow for Neuro ICU patients. Neuro ICU and COVID ICU compete for the same staff.

Third approximation, you presented skewed information on a county that has a fully vaccinated (2 doses) percentage of 54.43% and a weekly case rate of 392/100000 while dismissing out of hand the Irish data I presented of a country with a vaccination rate of well over 90%, and a county within that country with a staggering 99.7% vaccination rate that had a case rate of 1448/100000 (that's 3.7x as high) and somehow feel that the Indiana data makes the case that vaccines work while the Irish data can be ignored for some reason when they are using the same vaccines we are

So, first, your mixing and matching unlike percentages to suit your narrative. If you're saying Waterford is 99.7% vaccinated, then you're using over 18 rates, which means 92.5% nationwide.

Second, the 1448/100k 14-day rate you quoted was specifically for Waterford City South, population 53,504, or 775 cases. I.e. a small pocket.

Third, the report was dated in early November 2021. By early December, the NATIONAL CASE RATE was 1338/100k. See here. Waterford was just the early cluster of what was soon a nationwide trend in Ireland. Much like here stateside where initially the narrative was Florida (Waterford is in the SouthEast) case rates, which then later moved north, much the same in Ireland about a month later:



And, finally, the case hospitalization rate for Ireland (same source as above) is 0.8% (8 in 1,000 cases) and ICU rate is 0.03% (3 in 10,000 cases).

Meanwhile, in Indiana, over that past 30 days there have been
162,694 positive cases and looking at the hospital admissions of approximately 350/day equals a hospitalization rate of 6.4% (64 in 1,000 cases).

I don't actually have enough detailed information to tell you why such a high percentage of the unvaccinated show up in Vanderburgh county, because first I would need detailed enough demographic data to make a good estimate of the expected rate of positivity in a non-random sampling from among that population. Only with a good approximation of that could I make a determination of whether or not the data exceeds what would be expected

See above, the Ireland data supports the proposition that higher vaccination rates (Ireland's 92.5% vs whatever Indiana is, about 60% for over 18) equates to lower hospitalization rates (0.8% vs 6.4%).

You can certainly consider my presentation of the Irish data has an attached agenda, just don't pretend the same isn't true on your end

Please consider the Ireland data.... considered.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

New variant with 46 mutations detected in France - but it’s spreading slowly

A NEW Covid variant with 46 mutations has been found in France – but is spreading slowly with only 12 cases spotted so far. Mutated variants are extremely common among viruses, with many neve…

www.thesun.co.uk

A NEW Covid variant with 46 mutations has been found in France - but is spreading slowly with only 12 cases spotted so far.

Mutated variants are extremely common among viruses, with many never taking off beyond a handful of infections.

The Marseille infections have been linked to travel to Cameroon, and so far show little sign of outcompeting Omicron.

A string of hugely positive studies show Omicron IS milder than other strains, with the first official UK report revealing the risk of hospitalisation is 50 to 70 per cent lower than with Delta.

New COVID variant ‘IHU’ with 46 mutations detected in France

Experts are keeping a wary eye on yet another COVID variant, this one with 46 mutations. It was detected in France and showed up in a traveler recently arrived from a three-day stay in Cameroon, Fr…

www.nydailynews.com

 

[two70]

Personally, I think having a "Big Pharma" is a lot better than not having one, pandemic or not.

Since the usual proposed solution to every real and imagined evil of "Big (insert name of industry to be demonized here)" is the worst "Big" of them all, Big Government, I tend to agree.

 

[d.kaufman]

Jabs are working real well

Indiana State Health Commissioner Dr. Kris Box tests positive for COVID-19. Again.

Dr. Kris Box is one of 15,000 people in Indiana who tested positive for COVID-19.

www.indystar.com

 

[BugI02]

Wow, you did some number crunching... I just finished my normal "day" job and am getting ready to leave for my part-time job I work a couple nights a week, so I won't be able to respond for awhile, but I did want to acknowledge your post and your work.

Very interesting!

Thank you. The frustrating thing is no single site EVER has all the relevant information in one place. I had to have four different pages open just to cobble that together

 

[Rosenbah]

You have some catching up to do on the older Covid threads.

Also will help you know the players.

VAERS has been discussed since early 2020. I'm not going to spoil your leisure reading hours by summarizing how the folks around here feel about that data base.

I am new to the group and trying to learn the system and the data that is here. VAERS really tells it all. The Swine Flu vaccine had fewer than 60 fatalities and they pulled it. Now we have ??! from the Covid jabs?!

 

[JettaKnight]

Jabs are working real well

Indiana State Health Commissioner Dr. Kris Box tests positive for COVID-19. Again.

Dr. Kris Box is one of 15,000 people in Indiana who tested positive for COVID-19.

www.indystar.com

Is she dead or in the hospital?

No one every claimed you'd be totally immune.

 

[JettaKnight]

You have some catching up to do on the older Covid threads.

Also will help you know the players.

VAERS has been discussed since early 2020. I'm not going to spoil your leisure reading hours by summarizing how the folks around here feel about that data base.

IKR.

Coming in to INGO in 2022 and pulling out the chain link fence metaphor.
At least Rosenbah has some post about guns - seems sincere.

 

[JettaKnight]

A string of hugely positive studies show Omicron IS milder than other strains, with the first official UK report revealing the risk of hospitalisation is 50 to 70 per cent lower than with Delta.

New COVID variant ‘IHU’ with 46 mutations detected in France

Experts are keeping a wary eye on yet another COVID variant, this one with 46 mutations. It was detected in France and showed up in a traveler recently arrived from a three-day stay in Cameroon, Fr…

www.nydailynews.com

Good news... finally.

 

[actaeon277]

Is she dead or in the hospital?

No one every claimed you'd be totally immune.

Well, at first, weren't claims of "immunity" to be above 90 percent?