Could you have stopped the evil?

[Brad69]

Not to derail the thread just asking a question! VD might be right this may be a debate for different thread ?

While IMO any firearms competition is a good thing and can’t hurt. I do not get the relationship between shooting competition and surviving a gunfight mindset? While I understand the pressure of the timer and critical / positive reinforcement of competition is a good thing.

I have attended matches where it more like a golf game cool shirts and high dollar custom pistols and IMO rather soft individuals that were hanging with their shooting buddies and talking a lot about equipment not a bad thing just what I witnessed.
Definitely not training to take on a dude blasting with a 7.62x39 at close range.

So does Competition fall into the marksmanship training area or real world preparation area?

 

[nakinate]

I went to the range this morning and worked on accuracy at distance. I had never shot at 50 yards before so I started there. I did 5 rounds at a time.

The first 5 rounds were high left. I realized I was holding too high and not focusing on my support hand grip enough. My second group of 5 was better with 4/5 hitting the silhouette.


Here’s my 3rd group. 4/5 on target:

Here’s my 4th group. 4/5 in the 8 inch circle, all on target:

I then decided to try and induce some stress, even though it’s nowhere near real life stress. I used a 20 round mag. I sprinted from the target to the 50 yard mark, drew my gun, fired 5 shots. I then sprinted to the 25 yard mark and fired 5 more. I finished by sprinting to the 15 yard mark and shot 10 rounds.

I ended up with 3 shots missing the silhouette and 4 other shots outside of the 8 inch circle:

I ran all of this with my EDC set up. A Beretta Elite LTT in a Dale Fricke Archangel holster. It wasn’t perfect, but I learned a lot about what I’m capable of and how I can improve. So at this point I’d say yes, I’m comfortable engaging from 50 yards with my EDC if I had to do so.

 

[Vigilant]

I went to the range this morning and worked on accuracy at distance. I had never shot at 50 yards before so I started there. I did 5 rounds at a time.

The first 5 rounds were high left. I realized I was holding too high and not focusing on my support hand grip enough. My second group of 5 was better with 4/5 hitting the silhouette.


Here’s my 3rd group. 4/5 on target:

Here’s my 4th group. 4/5 in the 8 inch circle, all on target:

I then decided to try and induce some stress, even though it’s nowhere near real life stress. I used a 20 round mag. I sprinted from the target to the 50 yard mark, drew my gun, fired 5 shots. I then sprinted to the 25 yard mark and fired 5 more. I finished by sprinting to the 15 yard mark and shot 10 rounds.

I ended up with 3 shots missing the silhouette and 4 other shots outside of the 8 inch circle:

I ran all of this with my EDC set up. A Beretta Elite LTT in a Dale Fricke Archangel holster. It wasn’t perfect, but I learned a lot about what I’m capable of and how I can improve. So at this point I’d say yes, I’m comfortable engaging from 50 yards with my EDC if I had to do so.

I did the same thing, including the sprints, with a G19 RMR/Fricke Archangel and was quite pleased with the results, didn’t think of taking the pics. Next time, I think i’ll kit up with the GoPro on a head mount and run it. 124gr +P Gold Dots held at the T box at 50 scored high thoracic/low throat shots, holding on the chin dumped them right into the “A” on an IPSC cardboard silhouette. I managed to keep all but 3 from t box to stomach, with the three all having lawyers attached, I know one went over the right shoulder, the other 2 are a mystery?

 

[VUPDblue]

At work we have range training twice a year. It’s not just showing up, standing on the X, and shooting 50 rounds at a target. We have full on 9 hour days at the range that includes scenarios, multiple distances, multiple targets, moving, friendlies/bad-guys, cover, unconventional shooting positions, etc.... Some of our courses definitely resemble USPSA or IDPA stages. I would say that, of the agencies I’ve trained with over the years, ours sets us up to be the best we can reasonably expect to be. I say that to say this: any kind of stress-infused marksmanship training is better than none at all. I don’t believe that competition training can solve the mindset issue of confronting an active killer, but it can most definitely put the skills on board to make the hits.

I have been a competition shooter in one discipline or another almost since I was old enough to pull the trigger. I firmly believe that the skills to put bullets on target I learned in competition carried over into police work. The mindset came later, but certainly not from competition. When the marksmanship is learned in a competitive environment, the mindset and stress inoculation should be learned someplace else.

 

[nakinate]

I did the same thing, including the sprints, with a G19 RMR/Fricke Archangel and was quite pleased with the results, didn’t think of taking the pics. Next time, I think i’ll kit up with the GoPro on a head mount and run it. 124gr +P Gold Dots held at the T box at 50 scored high thoracic/low throat shots, holding on the chin dumped them right into the “A” on an IPSC cardboard silhouette. I managed to keep all but 3 from t box to stomach, with the three all having lawyers attached, I know one went over the right shoulder, the other 2 are a mystery?

I agree, I was also pleased with the results. Having never done it before I was quite surprised with my accuracy at that distance. Apart from my first group of 5 where I had 2 shots go off paper high/left, I can account for every other shot I took on my target.

 

[Hop]

I'd like to try 25 yards at Point Blank Carmel & see if I can make hits using the worst combination of tools I have. I won't be able to elevate my heart rate unless I have my hot wife next to me though.

25 yard slow fire head shots are pretty easy.
25 yard draw from a holster, 6 rapid shots into the A zone are only ~33%. That's still probably good enough to slow/stop a crazed perp that probably has only practiced shooting on an XBox.

 

[Trapper Jim]

Not to derail the thread just asking a question! VD might be right this may be a debate for different thread ?

While IMO any firearms competition is a good thing and can’t hurt. I do not get the relationship between shooting competition and surviving a gunfight mindset? While I understand the pressure of the timer and critical / positive reinforcement of competition is a good thing.

I have attended matches where it more like a golf game cool shirts and high dollar custom pistols and IMO rather soft individuals that were hanging with their shooting buddies and talking a lot about equipment not a bad thing just what I witnessed.
Definitely not training to take on a dude blasting with a 7.62x39 at close range.

So does Competition fall into the marksmanship training area or real world preparation area?

Not arguing that shooting competitively is the answer to everything that might happen on the street. However an occasional trip to a air conditioned indoor range and squirting a few bullets downrange twice a year whether you need to or not, does not hold a candle to the humility, the preparation, the commitment, the money, the time and the equipment to earn your place in the standings of ANY of the shooting sports. The end result is to set your ground zero and improve from there. If you are going to be a lifeguard you should know how to swim in all waters.
Skill set and testing yourself first, then apply the marksmanship you have achieved to any purpose that you want.. just saying

 

[K_W]

I don't care if he's 15 or 150 yards, I'd take the shot if no innocents are in the cross fire. The time it takes him to identify me, return fire, and neutralize me is time other people have to escape. If before that happens he turns tail, pops himself, or goes down then all the better.

 

[Yup!]

I'm going to try 25 yards at Point Blank Carmel this week & see if I can make hits using my frequently carried 9mm Shield & wearing the wrong pair of glasses. Kind of a worst combination of tools but can I do it test. I won't be able to elevate my heart rate unless I have my hot wife next to me though.

25 yard slow fire head shots are pretty easy.
25 yard draw from a holster, 6 rapid shots into the A zone are only ~33%. That's still probably good enough to slow/stop a crazed perp that probably has only practiced shooting on an XBox.

Let me know what day you go and I'll meet [STRIKE]her[/STRIKE] you there.

 

[Hop]

Let me know what day you go and I'll meet [STRIKE]her[/STRIKE] you there.

 

[bwframe]

Looks like some of you all are showing some pretty impressive results. I often struggle at 25 yards, while the timer is ticking.

 

[Vigilant]

Looks like some of you all are showing some pretty impressive results. I often struggle at 25 yards, while the timer is ticking.

None of mine was timed, the batteries in the shot timer were dead, I was using the sprints as a stressor, but by no means was I shooting slow. I’d get kicked out of an indoor range with a one shot every second rule.

 

[nakinate]

None of mine was timed, the batteries in the shot timer were dead, I was using the sprints as a stressor, but by no means was I shooting slow. I’d get kicked out of an indoor range with a one shot every second rule.

I didn’t use a timer either, but I’m confident my splits at 50 yards were under 1 second. Probably in the .8-.9 range.

 

[Steel and wood]

I think you two are on to something, the sprint idea is great and of course closing your distance is smart while you are laying down fire. I am going to have to give this a try Friday. Before my weekend of matches.
Still not sure on the 50 yard line shot have done 25 often but not 50. Time for me to take it serious.

 

[2A_Tom]

End of page one reply.

I would mot attempt that shot.

15 yards, probably. It still depends on his movement.

At 50 yards, concealment and egress.

If he is moving in my general direction and I believe I have good enough cover I may wait for a shot.

I cannot really say until I am in that situation.

 

[Indyal]

Well, I tried shooting out to 50 yds and that was after warming up at 7 and 25 yds. 4/5 rounds on neck and torso on my 3rd attempt and the first two attempts were dismal. My front sight pretty much obscures a torso outline at 50 yds so I had to use the target stand as a reference point. More practice/training is needed. And maybe a red dot.

 

[bwframe]

I'm happy to see folks pursuing this. It motivates to me start concentrating on working on my long range handgun marksmanship.

My dry fire game needs to be upped also.

 

[Trapper Jim]

I went to the range this morning and worked on accuracy at distance. I had never shot at 50 yards before so I started there. I did 5 rounds at a time.

The first 5 rounds were high left. I realized I was holding too high and not focusing on my support hand grip enough. My second group of 5 was better with 4/5 hitting the silhouette.


Here’s my 3rd group. 4/5 on target:

Here’s my 4th group. 4/5 in the 8 inch circle, all on target:

I then decided to try and induce some stress, even though it’s nowhere near real life stress. I used a 20 round mag. I sprinted from the target to the 50 yard mark, drew my gun, fired 5 shots. I then sprinted to the 25 yard mark and fired 5 more. I finished by sprinting to the 15 yard mark and shot 10 rounds.

I ended up with 3 shots missing the silhouette and 4 other shots outside of the 8 inch circle:

I ran all of this with my EDC set up. A Beretta Elite LTT in a Dale Fricke Archangel holster. It wasn’t perfect, but I learned a lot about what I’m capable of and how I can improve. So at this point I’d say yes, I’m comfortable engaging from 50 yards with my EDC if I had to do so.

.

Not always my EDC but this is 35 yrds at the range today. 10 shots slow fire 6 1/2 inch Flattop Blackhawk 41Magnum with a 210 Sierra Pill over 18Grains of 2400. Bullet moves at 1200fps. Has worked great on Whitetail and Wild Boar. Yes it is Certified Legal Ivory. I have taken 80 to 100 yrd shots with great success. I am sure that one in the Brain Basket of Mr. Delusional would be like ripe melon day from a Letterman rooftop.

 

[LCSOSgt11]

The short answer is...yes. That is why we practice. First, one must try as best to put aside fear and indecision and get on with the task at hand. That may be difficult.

 

[Brad69]

TJ shoots the bad guy with a 6 1/2 in .41 Mag Single Action you would be probably the best outfitted for a 50 yard shot than anyone!

It it would only count if you used a hard cast bullet, I bet Elmer Keith smiled because of you today.