Coronovirus IV

[BugI02]

No, the mask is a minimally effective intervention. The propaganda to make people believe it will keep them safe in government approved situations, while not keeping them safe in substantially similar but not government approved ones, is the hoax

 

[Ingomike]

So which is it? Was this virus engineered and purposefully release to kill people to scare and convince them to totally subjugate themselves to authority?

Or is it a hoax, so no need worrying about masks and other protective measures?

Strawman...

 

[NKBJ]

And rest assured that the bank bug kills people. It wouldn't be very scary if it didn't.

 

[HoughMade]

No, the mask is a minimally effective intervention. The propaganda to make people believe it will keep them safe in government approved situations, while not keeping them safe in substantially similar but not government approved ones, is the hoax

I bite. What's a more effective intervention that we are not doing?

 

[SheepDog4Life]

You can believe the narrative you like.

I can and do believe my own eyes standing right in front of the mirror. Like I said, this is a fairly valid test. Had my setup failed, I would have reported it and went back to the drawing board. It didn't... it passed better than I thought it would.

Did the vape, not come right through the mask materials?

Nope, only faint wisps, a very, very small portion of the vape came through the mask with my full yowie setup AND than was with me "blowing" the vape out like I normally would, not just a normal breathing exhale. Any vapers or former smokers know what I mean, to everyone else, hopefully it's clear.

It was not just around the edges.

Only exhausted a fraction of the vape, a significant fraction, out the sides of the mask without the yowie. This was not surprising as when I fit my surgical mask alone, breathing cases the mask to expand/contract on exhale/inhale.

Seeing the vents releasing the breath was cool and totally defeats the reasons to force others to wear them.

See my yowie recommendation above... problem and fix.

Long ago we had the debate on virus particle size and I recall the particle size is smaller than the mask filtration levels. The maskers claim the droplets the virus clings to were bigger than the mask filtration level.

Long ago we were debating if fabric masks could help or not and trying to divine from tea leave studies if fabric masks helped, and if so how much. We did not then have scientific body measuring the filtering effectiveness of fabric masks, and more importantly, now that they are publicly widely available, surgical masks IN THE SAME WAY N95 masks are measured.

That did not exist then... it does now. The science is in... masks other than N95s can do a very good job of filtering IF fit a sealed to the face so you are breathing through them, not around them.

The American Chemical Society Nano Journal:
Aerosol Filtration Efficiency of Common Fabrics Used in Respiratory Cloth Masks
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252

Wikipedia - The focus of ACS Nano is synthesis, assembly, characterization, theory, and simulation of nanostructures, nanotechnology, nanofabrication, self assembly, nanoscience methodology, and nanotechnology methodology. The focus also includes nanoscience and nanotechnology research – the scope of which is chemistry, biology, materials science, physics, and engineering.[1][2]

The whole mask thing is at best health security theater...

If you want to believe that, you are absolutely free to do so... but that is all it is, a belief.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

No, the mask is a minimally effective intervention. The propaganda to make people believe it will keep them safe in government approved situations, while not keeping them safe in substantially similar but not government approved ones, is the hoax

I agree the virus has absolutely no idea if it's in a church, a Walmart or at a protest. etc, etc

ETA: On mask effectiveness, we disagree. I am sincere in thanking Mike for finding and presenting this video of a vape test. I'm happy that my setup passed with flying colors and would recommend anyone who is concerned about their mask wearing to do the test themselves and not believe any random person on the Internet... I know I don't.

 

[JettaKnight]

So many repworthy posts; yet so little rep available to me.

I has sad.

Got 'em for us!

 

[rooster]

.

 

[IndyBeerman]

Then Trump's shirked his promise to drain that kind of thing.

Either way, he owns it.

So you expected him to drain the swamp in 4 years, in what has taken multiple decades to get where they are now.

The next time you stop to get gas for your vehicle, I expect you to to fuel, do a 4 tire change, clean your windshield and still pay for your purchase in 17 seconds.

Trump needs more help, he's pulling on the plug, the creatures under the drain in the swamp are pulling on that plug mighty hard to keep it from being pulled and full.

 

[T.Lex]

So you expected him to drain the swamp in 4 years, in what has taken multiple decades to get where they are now.

Actually, no. I didn't expect him to do it at all. I think I'm more rightier about that than ever.

If there was ever a time to pay attention to the HHS and CDC, seems like starting in March would be about right. He could've EASILY said that the people who had been running it dropped the ball on a global pandemic and it was time to clean house. Heck, based on what I could tell of what the CDC was doing (or not doing) I probably would've agreed with him. Either way, it was a moment that provided political cover.

In all honesty, I don't know whether he did something like that or not, or whether the appointees are his or hold-overs. But again, it kinda doesn't matter. If he appointed them then they are his. If they are holdovers, it is because he allowed them to be.

 

[Ingomike]

The most unpleasant part of mask discussions is the arrogance and certainly that the maskers as a group, and their group alone, is right morally and scientifically. They are not the only correct answer, but they push the liberty minded and folks with good instincts that see it differently to a full on anti-mask position.

If I believed a mask made a significant difference I would wear one voluntarily, but alas, the preponderance of evidence shows me they make little difference. Some of you disagree, and that is your right. But when reasonable people can come to different conclusions it is unreasonable to for one side to force the other side to do their choice, and downright wrong for government to use its power to force the issue. It is far from clear cut that masks are the answer or even a part of the answer

 

[T.Lex]

Motorcycle helmets, seat belts, and lawn darts. Worrying about the nanny state is old news.

 

[HoughMade]

The most unpleasant part of mask discussions is the arrogance and certainly that the maskers as a group, and their group alone, is right morally and scientifically. They are not the only correct answer, but they push the liberty minded and folks with good instincts that see it differently to a full on anti-mask position...

I'm thinking there's plenty of arrogance to go around.

Oh, and I would be surprised is any staunch anti-mask person actually waited to objectively consider the evidence before coming to a conclusion...and yes, I'm sure there are plenty of misconceptions on the "must mask" side as well.

I was anti-mask at one time. I'm sure they are posts that can confirm that. No longer. I was never in favor of a mask mandate...though I understand why it was done...and having a political position about masks...just doesn't make sense to me.

Finally, all of the oh so humble "freedom minded" types, yes, we know masks only reduce the chance spread; they do not eliminate it. But they do reduce it.

 

[Ingomike]

I'm thinking there's plenty of arrogance to go around.

I will defer to your expertise on the topic...

 

[jamil]

Ok.

But I don't look quite so anymore, eh?

Well, if that's the stretch goal...

 

[HoughMade]

When the defense to "all the reputable universities and public health institutions recommend it" is, yeah, well they're in on it. C'mon.

 

[T.Lex]

Well, if that's the stretch goal...

 

[Ingomike]

When the defense to "all the reputable universities and public health institutions recommend it" is, yeah, well they're in on it. C'mon.

And when the CDC and WHO reccomdations for respiratory diseases changes after mask wear becomes politicized in the US, well C'mon...

 

[SheepDog4Life]

The most unpleasant part of mask discussions is the arrogance and certainly that the maskers as a group, and their group alone, is right morally and scientifically. They are not the only correct answer, but they push the liberty minded and folks with good instincts that see it differently to a full on anti-mask position.

If I believed a mask made a significant difference I would wear one voluntarily, but alas, the preponderance of evidence shows me they make little difference. Some of you disagree, and that is your right. But when reasonable people can come to different conclusions it is unreasonable to for one side to force the other side to do their choice, and downright wrong for government to use its power to force the issue. It is far from clear cut that masks are the answer or even a part of the answer

Mike, on the highlighted parts, we absolutely agree... individual freedom is part and parcel with liberty and government diktats an affront to the same.

 

[JettaKnight]

The most unpleasant part of mask discussions is the arrogance and certainly that the maskers as a group, and their group alone, is right morally and scientifically. They are not the only correct answer, but they push the liberty minded and folks with good instincts that see it differently to a full on anti-mask position.

If I believed a mask made a significant difference I would wear one voluntarily, but alas, the preponderance of evidence shows me they make little difference. Some of you disagree, and that is your right. But when reasonable people can come to different conclusions it is unreasonable to for one side to force the other side to do their choice, and downright wrong for government to use its power to force the issue. It is far from clear cut that masks are the answer or even a part of the answer

Dude, I can be arrogant and cock-sure, but I know when I'm beaten.




You've had your opinion set in stone from the get-go, and all you've done is cherry pick studies, videos and arguments that support your opinion (i.e. confirmation bias). Then you make the claim that those that don't agree with you ("as a group") are pig-headed, and they're the ones that forced you take the position you've chosen?