Cops dont necessarily know jack about guns.

[actaeon277]

Well to be fair they have to enforce every laws and can't know them all off hand.

They deal with every kind of laws, not just firearms laws I would imagine (unless they are ATF or something).
I wouldn't expect them to be experts on environmental laws, or copyright laws either.

If there are too many laws for Law Enforcement Officials to keep track of, then how are ordinary citizens supposed to know them all?

 

[actaeon277]

Exactly. And in my case I'm sure I would have had to explain to my boss why I never showed up to the jobsite that day. Even if I had been released an hour or two later I still would have missed my appointment in the city I was headed to. Luckily my boss would have been understanding. (Imagine if she wasnt)

Im also sure the impound folks wouldnt say "sorry, our bad" and hand me my keys. Its not their fault. They were called and they did their job per the contract. I would have had to pay outrageous fees to get my car back and then sue the city for reimbursement.

Dont get me wrong, I have no ill feelings about LEOs. I'm no cop basher and have utmost respect for them. I just have a general hatred toward incompetence, ignorance, and malpractice in any profession. Especially when it can impact somebody's life so much.


And we do get some leniency... provided the prosecutor decides its an honest mistake and doesnt charge you. But that is still a far cry from the LEO's "oopsie".

I get it. I would like for someone to find one, just one police officer in this country who is capable of meeting the expectations of any ten citizens fully and completely. Here on INGO, our priority is on firearms.
For others it's mental health issue recognition, diagnosis and treatment,
For others it's grief counseling,
For others it's expert crash reconstruction,
For others it's chemical addiction treatment,
For others it's domestic violence prevention and marriage counseling,
For others it's first aid and emergency medicine,
For others it's dog behavioral expertise,
For others it's juvenile counseling expertise,
For others it's cultural difference recognition and expertise,
And on, and on, and on, and on, and on....

I just went through training on how I should treat gays, lesbians, transgendered and queer people. This is of course on top of the training I've already had on how we should treat Sikh's, Muslims, Hispanics and Burmese.

There is quite literally no one on this planet capable of meeting the expectations people have (of everyone but themselves) today. Not just of the police but pretty much of anyone who holds a job. We're all just one slight misstep away from being at the bottom of the next dogpile of social justice warriors.

He did state that he hates incompetence in any profession.

Saturday, I had to work on a camera because the video cable had pulled out of the plug itself. Because it was improperly done.
But when I went to open the housing, it was stopped by the bracket.
So I had to take apart the bracket, to open the housing, because the wrong bracket was used.
All the work on the housing and cable had to be done at head height because the cable was too short to set the camera down to work on.
And, I had to work the bolts/nuts and cable/plug with one hand, because on hand was holding the camera.

Incompetent job.

Doesn't mean I'm ranting about all the people in my field.
It means I'm ranting about an incompetent job.

 

[Slawburger]

Does this thread offer t-shirts?

No, but there will be "I survived the .... Thread" hats and participation trophies.

 

[Hookeye]

Not knowing the law is one thing.
Making threats and being incorrect at the same time is another.

STFU and write me a ticket so I can be on my way to a lawyer.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Does this thread offer t-shirts?

We are using the same logo in this thread for our shirts.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break-room/415004-thank-you-churchmouse.html#post6569658

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Rookies are in FTO, i.e. Still in training.

 

[Hookeye]

Reminds me of a CO hassling a guy, running a trimmed .35 Rem.
Mr. Greenpants used an index card with a "go, no-go" graphic on it.
Never checked it with any measuring instrument, just went by the issued index card.
Told the poor hunter he could lose his gun, get his vehicle impounded blah blah blah.
Guy had his ammo done by a commercial reloader.

And it was in spec.

Guy was all upset over the threats...........one of those "never ticketed for anything" geezers that proly was close to heart attack over the deal.

Pure BS.

I would think ANYBODY with half a friggin' brain would have checked the damn card graphic with a dial caliper.

 

[Hookeye]

I wonder how many old Colts, Smiths and Lugers were "taken care of" by good cops in Indiana when the old ladies and other family members of the deceased were informed that the guns weren't registered.

Back in the day, you know that crap happened.

But to be fair, some fraidy cats that got guns were spooked on their own, offered them up for free. Wonder how many informed them of the law to ease their fears.

Due to internet and different generation being geezer now, I'd hope it's way lesser than it used to be (people being misinformed/not being given fair value for their items).

 

[Denny347]

Sitting here listening to the scanner feed. Im shaking my head.

Officer called in a serial that was conveyed to him by the lady in front of him. He apparently didnt have the actual gun in his hand, as the gun was allegedly in posession of her boyfriend, but was owned by the lady who told the officer what said serial number was. (presumably from a bill of sale, etc.)

Dispatch ran it, no hits.
He protested a bit and dispatch reminded him that they only get hits on stolen guns and nothing else.
He asked for more info and conveyed that "the gun was registered to her".
Dispatch proceeded to educate him on the fact that guns are not registered in this state and he was barking up the wrong tree. (and presumably wasting her time as well as airtime by her tone)


Pretty sad when a police officer doesnt understand the basics of handgun laws seeing as how he carries one and is presumably expected to enforce said laws.

Thanks to BBI, Frank, VUPD and others who "get it".

Was the officer on the radio an 1800 unit number? Just curious. You know that the academy teaches mostly Constitutional Law. Fundamentals, broad concepts. Specific Indiana laws is up to the FTO to teach or the rookie to learn on their free time. I'm sure there are plenty of people who curse at me for not know Indiana residency laws, civil divorce laws, landlord/tenant laws, asset laws, small claims laws, auto lemon laws, loan/lending laws. Yet we get called to resolve these issues daily. We do our best but we are human and make mistakes. Without coming to an internet forum, what law should this officer in question look up that would tell them that there is no Indiana gun registration?

 

[Denny347]

I wonder how many old Colts, Smiths and Lugers were "taken care of" by good cops in Indiana when the old ladies and other family members of the deceased were informed that the guns weren't registered.

Back in the day, you know that crap happened.

But to be fair, some fraidy cats that got guns were spooked on their own, offered them up for free. Wonder how many informed them of the law to ease their fears.

Due to internet and different generation being geezer now, I'd hope it's way lesser than it used to be (people being misinformed/not being given fair value for their items).

What are you getting at?

 

[jbombelli]

Well to be fair they have to enforce every laws and can't know them all off hand.

They deal with every kind of laws, not just firearms laws I would imagine (unless they are ATF or something).
I wouldn't expect them to be experts on environmental laws, or copyright laws either.

We have to abide by every law, and we're expected to know them. Including copyright law, tax law, real estate law, etc., and not knowing them can create a real problem for us.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Was the officer on the radio an 1800 unit number? Just curious. You know that the academy teaches mostly Constitutional Law. Fundamentals, broad concepts. Specific Indiana laws is up to the FTO to teach or the rookie to learn on their free time. I'm sure there are plenty of people who curse at me for not know Indiana residency laws, civil divorce laws, landlord/tenant laws, asset laws, small claims laws, auto lemon laws, loan/lending laws. Yet we get called to resolve these issues daily. We do our best but we are human and make mistakes. Without coming to an internet forum, what law should this officer in question look up that would tell them that there is no Indiana gun registration?

I didnt catch the unit number. I just heard the perplexing exchange. He sounded older, not like a rookie. I cant say what law he would look up, but considering any registrations would go through local police (based on past indiana performance) I would think he would know about it as that would be (was) the job of his dept to register them. I guess you should know what your employer does and is responsible is what I am getting at.

 

[Nacelle]

I understand that my boss, who ownes one gun, and only shot it once, thinks there's registration. You do fill out a form at the gun shop when you buy one . Why wouldn't people think that's registration who don't know the difference? A cop who carries one, deals with people who carry them on a regular basis should have some kind of clue.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I just read through this thread, and these thoughts came to mind:

Here we are building toward one of my major problems with law enforcement. Regardless of how far off the beaten path a law may be, I get 'Ignorance of the law is no excuse'. That may have held water back when so long as you followed the Ten Commandments and paid your taxes, you would never run afoul of the law. It just isn't that way now. The big problem is that for me there is no such thing as an honest mistake. If a cop f**ks up, he gets to say 'oopsie' and walk away.

What would be the proper response to the officer instead of allowing that "oopsie", or alternatively, to the citizen who legitimately violated the law? Should the former be punished somehow, or the latter not?

I get it. I would like for someone to find one, just one police officer in this country who is capable of meeting the expectations of any ten citizens fully and completely. Here on INGO, our priority is on firearms.
For others it's mental health issue recognition, diagnosis and treatment,
For others it's grief counseling,
For others it's expert crash reconstruction,
For others it's chemical addiction treatment,
For others it's domestic violence prevention and marriage counseling,
For others it's first aid and emergency medicine,
For others it's dog behavioral expertise,
For others it's juvenile counseling expertise,
For others it's cultural difference recognition and expertise,
And on, and on, and on, and on, and on....

I just went through training on how I should treat gays, lesbians, transgendered and queer people. This is of course on top of the training I've already had on how we should treat Sikh's, Muslims, Hispanics and Burmese.

There is quite literally no one on this planet capable of meeting the expectations people have (of everyone but themselves) today. Not just of the police but pretty much of anyone who holds a job. We're all just one slight misstep away from being at the bottom of the next dogpile of social justice warriors.

Good points, Phylo. While an officer should know basics, so should everyone else.

Oh look, the usuals are getting riled up about something trivial. Where are all the posts about INGO members that don't know dick about guns or gun laws?

In fairness, though, Frank, the INGO members who don't know about guns are mostly here to learn, and the ones who don't know about gun laws typically aren't tasked with enforcing them and in the process, screwing up someone's life (or even just his day)

...
but do I expect them to get clarification on something they don't know? hell yes I do!
...

And how do they know they don't know something? For example, in some cultures, talking to one member of the family is an insult to another, but if you don't know that you're talking to a member of one of those cultures, or don't know that that is their belief, or worse, don't know that fact, how are you supposed to become aware of it? (I believe it was the Terre Haute PD that used to tell everyone that open carry was unlawful in Indiana, and I know Evansville used to require that those applying for a LTCH have their pic taken. IMPD, last I heard (which admittedly was a long time back) requires someone getting a gun that somehow ends up in the property room jump through several hoops, most of which are more restrictive than getting a LTCH in the first place. It's not technically legal, but who's going to tell them that and expect to be believed?)

If there are too many laws for Law Enforcement Officials to keep track of, then how are ordinary citizens supposed to know them all?

Another excellent point. I've heard this asked before, but never heard a good answer to it.

Was the officer on the radio an 1800 unit number? Just curious. You know that the academy teaches mostly Constitutional Law. Fundamentals, broad concepts. Specific Indiana laws is up to the FTO to teach or the rookie to learn on their free time. I'm sure there are plenty of people who curse at me for not know Indiana residency laws, civil divorce laws, landlord/tenant laws, asset laws, small claims laws, auto lemon laws, loan/lending laws. Yet we get called to resolve these issues daily. We do our best but we are human and make mistakes. Without coming to an internet forum, what law should this officer in question look up that would tell them that there is no Indiana gun registration?

Great cite for "cops need to know about ______ laws!" Of note, though, I don't know that going to an internet forum is the best course of action (especially when people type in purple)

We have to abide by every law, and we're expected to know them. Including copyright law, tax law, real estate law, etc., and not knowing them can create a real problem for us.

It would seem to me that this points to the real problem. Not the "not knowing" one, but the root of it all: We have far too many laws!!! This is not a problem that the cops can solve, any more than anyone else can, other than members of the legislature. Start passing some repeals, guys!

And just in case there's any question left, I'll clarify my own position: I support the efforts of our good officers and condemn those who tarnish their names and profession. I may ask questions from time to time that may be a bit biting... but the reason they are so is that the question they raise is a vaild one.
Why is a good cop not lauded for his work? Is it that good work is the expectation, and not worthy of note? If so, that's . Good work should command more of a reward than the work itself is. (reference the oft-heard thought that good work is its own reward)
Why is a bad cop not only kept on the roster, but others required to help keep him paid? (I refer to our good buddy Harless, of Canton, OH, who the city worked very hard to keep on the force despite overwhelming evidence what a dirtbag he was. That's no slam on the other officers, just on the city government that employed him.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[HoughMade]

I get it. I would like for someone to find one, just one police officer in this country who is capable of meeting the expectations of any ten citizens fully and completely. Here on INGO, our priority is on firearms.
For others it's mental health issue recognition, diagnosis and treatment,
For others it's grief counseling,
For others it's expert crash reconstruction,
For others it's chemical addiction treatment,
For others it's domestic violence prevention and marriage counseling,
For others it's first aid and emergency medicine,
For others it's dog behavioral expertise,
For others it's juvenile counseling expertise,
For others it's cultural difference recognition and expertise,
And on, and on, and on, and on, and on....

I just went through training on how I should treat gays, lesbians, transgendered and queer people. This is of course on top of the training I've already had on how we should treat Sikh's, Muslims, Hispanics and Burmese.

There is quite literally no one on this planet capable of meeting the expectations people have (of everyone but themselves) today. Not just of the police but pretty much of anyone who holds a job. We're all just one slight misstep away from being at the bottom of the next dogpile of social justice warriors.

I have it easy. As one of my law professors was fond of saying, : "No client will ever come to your office, describe their problem and say you have to come up with great advice, but you can't look anything up."

 

[phylodog]

A cop who carries one, deals with people who carry them on a regular basis should have some kind of clue.

You might be surprised at how infrequently officers deal with law abiding carriers. It's been awhile since I worked patrol but as a group, those who legally carry firearms are pretty good at avoiding interactions with the police.

 

[KellyinAvon]

You might be surprised at how infrequently officers deal with law abiding carriers. It's been awhile since I worked patrol but as a group, those who legally carry firearms are pretty good at avoiding interactions with the police.

"Pretty good at avoiding interactions with the police." Is that another way of saying, "Obeying the law"??

 

[phylodog]

"Pretty good at avoiding interactions with the police." Is that another way of saying, "Obeying the law"??

Indeed

 

[MohawkSlim]

There's a pretty good movie out there where two cops pick up a high school kid and explain to him there's no such thing as the semen database.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

If there are too many laws for Law Enforcement Officials to keep track of, then how are ordinary citizens supposed to know them all?

Bingo. If we were to wipe ALL laws off the books every few years, and re-apply the ones that we REALLY need how many laws would we have? Certainly a more manageable number.