Cop Down -- would you intervene?

[TheReaper]

Do you mean a zombie apocalypse SHTF scenario, or an "Oh crap, I didn't see that one coming and am getting thumped!" SHTF scenario?

I didn't see a lot of people saying that. I saw a lot of people saying that the officer or the officer's good, close, personal friends would do bad things to them if they got involved, whether mistakenly or deliberately.

Again, a gross misrepresentation. The issue was not "If injured by a LEO, mistakenly, but gravely, can I execute him?" The issue was "If gravely injured by a LEO, even if mistakenly, and his threat did not immediately abate, i.e. he continued to pose a threat of grave bodily injury or death, can I defend myself with deadly force to abate the officer's threat to me?"

"There are a few LEOs in circulation for whom I would make a deliberate choice to risk my life if the situation called for it. The problem I have making a moral decision for a stranger is that for all I know a citizen could be coping with having been attacked by a mad dog with a badge, and, unfortunately, in my experience, this is the more likely possibility."

The above was posted by IndyDave1776, pretty self explanitory. Gross, yes, but not a "misrepresentation"

 

[TheReaper]

Do you mean a zombie apocalypse SHTF scenario, or an "Oh crap, I didn't see that one coming and am getting thumped!" SHTF scenario?

I didn't see a lot of people saying that. I saw a lot of people saying that the officer or the officer's good, close, personal friends would do bad things to them if they got involved, whether mistakenly or deliberately.

Again, a gross misrepresentation. The issue was not "If injured by a LEO, mistakenly, but gravely, can I execute him?" The issue was "If gravely injured by a LEO, even if mistakenly, and his threat did not immediately abate, i.e. he continued to pose a threat of grave bodily injury or death, can I defend myself with deadly force to abate the officer's threat to me?"

"Here's a question for all of you to ponder, if you are a bystander shot by police and legally armed , are you justified in returning fire on the officers? They have caused you injury they are shooting people around you."

Posted by ShortyForty

 

[IndyDave1776]

"There are a few LEOs in circulation for whom I would make a deliberate choice to risk my life if the situation called for it. The problem I have making a moral decision for a stranger is that for all I know a citizen could be coping with having been attacked by a mad dog with a badge, and, unfortunately, in my experience, this is the more likely possibility."

The above was posted by IndyDave1776, pretty self explanitory. Gross, yes, but not a "misrepresentation"

It seems remarkably easy for you to pass personal judgement when you have less understanding of the reasons for my position than a hog has of calculus.

On a lighter note, I will congratulate you on being 2/3 of the way to being able to snag that gold-plated High Point on the classifieds!

 

[TheReaper]

It seems remarkably easy for you to pass personal judgement when you have less understanding of the reasons for my position than a hog has of calculus.

I understand what you're saying. If you were to see an officer, any officer, in an altercation with someone, your first thought is that the officer is the criminal and the criminal is innocent.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I understand what you're saying. If you were to see an officer, any officer, in an altercation with someone, your first thought is that the officer is the criminal and the criminal is innocent.

I am saying that I have encountered more dishonest cops than honest, and given the abysmal depths of the malfeasance I have seen, I cannot justify the automatic assumption that the cop is right that some people hold so dear.

 

[TheReaper]

I am saying that I have encountered more dishonest cops than honest, and given the abysmal depths of the malfeasance I have seen, I cannot justify the automatic assumption that the cop is right that some people hold so dear.

LOL

 

[IndyDave1776]

LOL

Let me share one of my experiences. I am originally from a community that at the time of this incident (which it hasn't improved much if any) had a dirty police department (exactly 1 honest cop), a dirty prosecutor, and two dirty judges. My younger sister had a problem with underage drinking. Needless to say I didn't condone this and expected a generous application of responsibility for the situation, but I also had a problem with the local PD's way of dealing with this type of problem off the books. In the end, having a discussion with the mayor was sufficient to put my sister on the off limits list albeit without materially affecting the actual problem. Now, how should I live with myself if I were to find someone in a similar problem who did not have a workable informal political solution available (compounded with the formal solutions being unavailable by virtue of corruption) and was 'dealing' with a cop by virtue of not accepting the notion of his sister becoming some worthless GDMFSB cop's personal whore, and decided to jump in and bust a cap on him thus doing my civic duty to protect the cop?

 

[churchmouse]

Let me share one of my experiences. I am originally from a community that at the time of this incident (which it hasn't improved much if any) had a dirty police department (exactly 1 honest cop), a dirty prosecutor, and two dirty judges. My younger sister had a problem with underage drinking. Needless to say I didn't condone this and expected a generous application of responsibility for the situation, but I also had a problem with the local PD's way of dealing with this type of problem off the books. In the end, having a discussion with the mayor was sufficient to put my sister on the off limits list albeit without materially affecting the actual problem. Now, how should I live with myself if I were to find someone in a similar problem who did not have a workable informal political solution available (compounded with the formal solutions being unavailable by virtue of corruption) and was 'dealing' with a cop by virtue of not accepting the notion of his sister becoming some worthless GDMFSB cop's personal whore, and decided to jump in and bust a cap on him thus doing my civic duty to protect the cop?

A bit of a problem....yes. Best handled in stealth.

 

[sloughfoot]

Let me share one of my experiences. I am originally from a community that at the time of this incident (which it hasn't improved much if any) had a dirty police department (exactly 1 honest cop), a dirty prosecutor, and two dirty judges. My younger sister had a problem with underage drinking. Needless to say I didn't condone this and expected a generous application of responsibility for the situation, but I also had a problem with the local PD's way of dealing with this type of problem off the books. In the end, having a discussion with the mayor was sufficient to put my sister on the off limits list albeit without materially affecting the actual problem. Now, how should I live with myself if I were to find someone in a similar problem who did not have a workable informal political solution available (compounded with the formal solutions being unavailable by virtue of corruption) and was 'dealing' with a cop by virtue of not accepting the notion of his sister becoming some worthless GDMFSB cop's personal whore, and decided to jump in and bust a cap on him thus doing my civic duty to protect the cop?

If any of this is remotely true, you have legal, cheap, and easy ways to resolve it. You sound like you have been permanately damaged and your viewpoints warped by this bizarre event and weird story.

I hope you find a way to resolve your anger issues.

 

[TheReaper]

Let me share one of my experiences. I am originally from a community that at the time of this incident (which it hasn't improved much if any) had a dirty police department (exactly 1 honest cop), a dirty prosecutor, and two dirty judges. My younger sister had a problem with underage drinking. Needless to say I didn't condone this and expected a generous application of responsibility for the situation, but I also had a problem with the local PD's way of dealing with this type of problem off the books. In the end, having a discussion with the mayor was sufficient to put my sister on the off limits list albeit without materially affecting the actual problem. Now, how should I live with myself if I were to find someone in a similar problem who did not have a workable informal political solution available (compounded with the formal solutions being unavailable by virtue of corruption) and was 'dealing' with a cop by virtue of not accepting the notion of his sister becoming some worthless GDMFSB cop's personal whore, and decided to jump in and bust a cap on him thus doing my civic duty to protect the cop?

Well, that is definitely a terrible experience, I'll agree. But by that situation, EVERY law enforcement officer in the country is crooked?

In escence, by that philosophy, come winter time, every law enforcement officer should draw his/her weapon and fire upon every person that they see that is wearing a ski mask. Because as we all know they are most commonly used in rapes, robberies burglaries and various other crimes.

 

[IndyDave1776]

If any of this is remotely true, you have legal cheap and easy ways to resolve it. You sound like you have been permanately damaged and your viewpoints warped by this bizarre event and weird story.

I went with that one by virtue of it being the most egregious. Since then, results have been predictably mixed, but it is also true that most of my LEO encounters these days (which I deliberately keep as few as possible) are those in positions geared toward enforcing petty and arbitrary regulations for fun and profit.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Well, that is definitely a terrible experience, I'll agree. But by that situation, EVERY law enforcement officer in the country is crooked?

In escence, by that philosophy, come winter time, every law enforcement officer should draw his/her weapon and fire upon every person that they see that is wearing a ski mask. Because as we all know they are most commonly used in rapes, robberies burglaries and various other crimes.

Definitely not, but overall I would say approximately 80% that I have encountered are not trustworthy albeit such an egregious example is rare in my experience (provided that you avoid that particular community).

Back to my original position, I see nothing whatsoever unreasonable about not joining into someone else's fight until I feel adequately certain of the circumstances. Uniforms, badges, and ski masks, regardless of prevailing assumptions, do not constitute any evidence of the wearer's righteousness or unrighteousness and as such I refuse to consider them proof of anything.

 

[TheReaper]

Definitely not, but overall I would say approximately 80% that I have encountered are not trustworthy albeit such an egregious example is rare in my experience (provided that you avoid that particular community).

Back to my original position, I see nothing whatsoever unreasonable about not joining into someone else's fight until I feel adequately certain of the circumstances. Uniforms, badges, and ski masks, regardless of prevailing assumptions, do not constitute any evidence of the wearer's righteousness or unrighteousness and as such I refuse to consider them proof of anything.

I agree with you now and under your train of thought, if I ever see a nun getting the crap kicked out of her by some big dude, I'll just assume that she's a thief and prostitute dressed up and stand by and watch.

That is nothing but liberal intolerant crap, the same thing that everyone on this board balks at!

 

[sloughfoot]

I went with that one by virtue of it being the most egregious. Since then, results have been predictably mixed, but it is also true that most of my LEO encounters these days (which I deliberately keep as few as possible) are those in positions geared toward enforcing petty and arbitrary regulations for fun and profit.

I know you won't believe it, but most Police Officers would rather work an entire shift without coming into contact with you or anybody, for that matter. Do you realize how many meals, comfort stops, and cups of coffee are missed because of some lame complaint that the Officer must respond to? And then lock someone up or write a report and then show up for court? And every citizen contact carries with it the risk of a IA complaint. It is much easier to just drive around showing the presence, believe me.

You say petty and arbitrary regulations. You seem to ignore the fact that the laws are created by your elected representatives. They are not created by the Police. As far as the fun and profit part, take another look at my first paragraph.

However, everything changes when the safety of an individual or the public at large is in jeopardy. Such as, speeding in a construction zone..

 

[IndyDave1776]

You say petty and arbitrary regulations. You seem to ignore the fact that the laws are created by your elected representatives. They are not created by the Police. As far as the fun and profit part, take another look at my first paragraph.

You forgot that the most troublesome examples are generated by federal bureaucrats and in turn enforced at the state level as a result of the federal funds extortion racket.

 

[sloughfoot]

You forgot that the most troublesome examples are generated by federal bureaucrats and in turn enforced at the state level as a result of the federal funds extortion racket.

Sorry, you will have to name for me the Federal regulations that Local Police enforce. Please list them. I don't know of any.

When I wrote citations, they were always IC's or local ordinances. I have never written a Federal regulation citation. I wouldn't know how, or what court would adjucate the citation.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Sorry, you will have to name for me the Federal regulations that Local Police enforce. Please list them. I don't know of any.

Tell you what. I am not in the mood to play stump the chump. Assuming your 156 miles SW of Camp Perry to be true, that puts you somewhere in the general area of Richmond. Invest some of your free time in a field trip to the scale. They can tell you all about it.

Now, I am going to take some good advice someone posted earlier regarding the ignore list.

 

[sloughfoot]

Tell you what. I am not in the mood to play stump the chump. Assuming your 156 miles SW of Camp Perry to be true, that puts you somewhere in the general area of Richmond. Invest some of your free time in a field trip to the scale. They can tell you all about it.

Now, I am going to take some good advice someone posted earlier regarding the ignore list.

I am in Huntertown. I have a CDL. I have been driving commercial vehicles since 1985. I am very familiar with scales and DOT enforcement. I fill out a log book every day. I will be taking the Ft Wayne TinCaps on a charter to Lansing tomorrow so they can play a double header. My logbook and all other documents will be current and up to date.

That still does not answer what Federal laws local Police enforce. I don't know of any, and I suspect you don't know of any either. You are just spouting off because it is cheap and easy to do so..

Please don't be a weenie. I hope you get the help you might need with your anger issues.

So long......I don't plan on putting you on my ignore list.

 

[CathyInBlue]

You say petty and arbitrary regulations. You seem to ignore the fact that the laws are created by your elected representatives.

What part of "created by your elected representatives" negates the idea of "petty and arbitrary regulations"?

 

[sloughfoot]

What part of "created by your elected representatives" negates the idea of "petty and arbitrary regulations"?

I fear that any reasoned response by me will only result in my being placed on your ignore list.

Do you believe that we are no longer a democratic republic?

Carry on...