Congrats Carmel PD.... You Made the News?!?!

[stephen87]

Frankly, I'm not really surprised by this. CPD has been known to make some questionable traffic stops. 10 years ago, when I first moved to Indy and was driving a big white '91 Cadillac Deville with a huge dent in the side (it was paid off and the dent didn't stop the doors from working and as a just graduating college student, I wasn't about to go buy a new car). I was pulled over in Carmel for "making a wide left turn" whatever the hell that means. I have no idea how the officer judged that... other than my suspicion that he didn't like the car (no ticket issued, just a warning). I had another run in with IMPD for a similar pretense in that car (again no ticket, just a warning), and then yet again with Silverton Police in Cincinnati (that one was not using a turn signal to make a left turn from a turn lane on a green arrow). That last one ended up with me in the back of the first of three squad cars on the scene, while they tore my car apart looking for drugs... which they didn't find. Still no ticket, just a sneering question about whether I was a member of the NRA, since they found some loose 7.62x54R rounds that fallen out of my range bag and had been rattling around in my trunk for a while. All that happened over a few months, between May and August of 2005.

As soon as I could save up enough money, I got rid of that car for a newer and more respectable car and haven't been pulled over other than for legit reasons (I did get a speeding ticket, which I'll own). So, either my driving has gotten a lot better, or my car was no longer being profiled. This is why when some of my black friends complain about DWB, I 100% have no problem believing them.

No offense to the CPD and IMPD officers on here, but law enforcement in this country has a lot of work to do to regain the trust of a good portion of the citizenry. A few rotten apples spoil the barrel and all that.

Three times in three cities in three months? Sounds like it isn't a car issue.

Yep. We'll ask you to lower the window, and if you dont, have you exit the vehicle (and that won't be a request).

Been there. Done that. It'll be a request the first 2 times. The third time, not so much.

To be clear, I can refuse all roadside tests without penalty? Not that this would ever apply, since I don't drink...

Neither does that guy and look where it got him.

 

[Rookie]

True, but the guy got hemmed up because he opened his mouth and volunteered information.

 

[Denny347]

Hey, I'm just glad someone else is in the news...thanks CPD. We owe you one

 

[KLB]

Hey, I'm just glad someone else is in the news...thanks CPD. We owe you one

 

[OutdoorDad]

Even if this was consistent with training/policy, that doesn't trump the actual law. ILEA has already said this is not consistent with his training, and I guarantee you the Lee Buckingham isn't going to say that his prosecutors office has a policy directly in contradiction to Indiana law as regards implied consent .

I thought I read that White, director of training, said the stop was ok.
That would lead me to believe it was consistent with his training.

Jam the trainers. Jam his supervisor. Do a class action.
Looks to me like he's policing as he's been trained.

I suspect he will bear the brunt of the investigation.

 

[HoughMade]

The better question is why the driver wouldn't lower their window, after being legally stopped, and while in contact with another person. Your answer to this pretty much dictates the reason why the person is asked to step out of the car.

The window motor on my old GMC Jimmy burned out and my window was held up by 2 zip ties and a needle-nosed Vice Grips for 3 years. That made traffic stops interesting.

 

[stephen87]

The window motor on my old GNC Jimmy burned out and my window was held up by 2 zip ties and a needle-nosed Vice Grips for 3 years. That made traffic stops interesting.

Please tell me you would breathe on the window and write in the fog?!

 

[indykid]

Based on the speed limit versus speed of the vehicle, I might have problems driving through Carmel since my analog speedometer is 4 MPH off, meaning I am going slower than it reads. Thankfully my car also has a GPS speedometer which is how I found out the main one was off. Of course all the tailgaters in the rear view told me something was wrong in the first few days after buying the car.

So since driving over the speed limit is a no-no, and now according to this police stop, driving 25 in a 30 which used to be very legal is now grounds for a stop, getting to 86th and Meridian is now going to take over an hour going around Carmel until they figure out why driving within the speed limit is now considered suspicious. I guess that is because Carmel, being a town known for speed traps, expects everyone to speed, therefore legal is now suspicious?

And now that the above has been read, please understand it is in purple, even though it looks black, to go along with 25 in a 30 being suspicious even though it is legal.

DOH!!!!!!!!!

 

[phylodog]

Carmel better hope that the Victim doesn't Hire Jack Crawford

He's almost the slimiest douche nozzle of a defense attorney this city has ever seen, only outdone by his partner Kim Dickveine.

He got me on my very first jury trial. I learned a lot from that experience so I guess I should be thankful. I embarrassed him the second time we shared the courtroom, strangely he didn't appreciate the huge smile on my face as his client immediately took a plea.

 

[Stickfight]

Hence the importance of video.

I just watched the video. This won't go well for Carmel.

It must be difficult to be a police officer in the age of ubiquitous video. Certainly evidence abounds to illustrate why they fought it for so long and continue to.

 

[phylodog]

It must be difficult to be a police officer in the age of ubiquitous video.

Never been a particularly easy occupation. Shares one attribute with pro athletes...those who aren't capable of sharing the field are never short on criticism.

 

["Username"]

Looks like Jonathan Finch may have other matters to deal with.....


Indy man arrested in Parke County fraud case | News | tribstar.com

 

[HoughMade]

Looks like Jonathan Finch may have other matters to deal with.....

Indy man arrested in Parke County fraud case | News | tribstar.com

Let me guess- he tried to sell a covered bridge to a tourist.

 

[T.Lex]

Look, let the pooooleeece be the pooooleeeece and let the Sovies be Sovies.

Speaking of which - just saw this tonight.

Cops shut down mother?s Facebook before killing her, injuring son | New York Post

Police said she was pulled over because instead of a license plate, she had a cardboard tag that said: “Any government official who compromises this pursuit of happiness and right to travel will be held criminally responsible and fined, as this is a natural right and freedom.”

 

[Tombs]

Speaking of which - just saw this tonight.

Cops shut down mother?s Facebook before killing her, injuring son | New York Post

Here's a little something extra:

[video=youtube;TTTbnMgs0uo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTTbnMgs0uo[/video]

 

[Lil Bob]

I will reserve judgement in this. I am not a trained LEO, so I have not enough information to make an informed judgement. One piece of this article that stands out to me is when he stated he was on prescription drugs. That was his mistake. One thing that I have learned over the last couple of years is that if you get pulled over or detained by law enforcement they are not your friend at that point. They have stopped you for a reason, and it is not a friendly one. Your best bet is to answer their questions with only necessary points and then keep your mouth shut. You are being investigated at that point and time and the more information that is given can lead to nowhere but bad.

I will not lie to an LEO but I will not give any information that the pointed answers to their questions. The person in the story should have kept his "pie hole" shut as others have stated previously. If he had not stated that he was on prescription drugs after stating that he had not been drinking the stop may have ended differently.

Lawyers that I know have stated the same to me. Good people at times get caught up in bad situations when they open up to law enforcement because we have been taught that it is the right thing to do.

This is not meant to be a slap towards LEO's. They have a tough job and don't get enough credit. But when detained keep your mouth shut.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I will reserve judgement in this. I am not a trained LEO, so I have not enough information to make an informed judgement. One piece of this article that stands out to me is when he stated he was on prescription drugs. That was his mistake. One thing that I have learned over the last couple of years is that if you get pulled over or detained by law enforcement they are not your friend at that point. They have stopped you for a reason, and it is not a friendly one. Your best bet is to answer their questions with only necessary points and then keep your mouth shut. You are being investigated at that point and time and the more information that is given can lead to nowhere but bad.

I will not lie to an LEO but I will not give any information that the pointed answers to their questions. The person in the story should have kept his "pie hole" shut as others have stated previously. If he had not stated that he was on prescription drugs after stating that he had not been drinking the stop may have ended differently.

Lawyers that I know have stated the same to me. Good people at times get caught up in bad situations when they open up to law enforcement because we have been taught that it is the right thing to do.

This is not meant to be a slap towards LEO's. They have a tough job and don't get enough credit. But when detained keep your mouth shut.

It can vary. Many years ago, I had a woman crash into a church. The church, being a stationary building, did not appear to be at fault. She showed a lot of signs of impairment, such as hitting a church. She said she had taken prescription meds. She got a blood draw (voluntary) and was then released to her husband. The blood came back, no alcohol, and prescription meds. The prosecutor declined charges.

My philosophy has always been if you don't KNOW what the test is going to show, release them. You can pick them up later on a warrant if they were high/drunk when the test comes back. It's not time sensitive at that point.

 

[Denny347]

It can vary. Many years ago, I had a woman crash into a church. The church, being a stationary building, did not appear to be at fault. She showed a lot of signs of impairment, such as hitting a church. She said she had taken prescription meds. She got a blood draw (voluntary) and was then released to her husband. The blood came back, no alcohol, and prescription meds. The prosecutor declined charges.

My philosophy has always been if you don't KNOW what the test is going to show, release them. You can pick them up later on a warrant if they were high/drunk when the test comes back. It's not time sensitive at that point.

Great plan. Unless you have obvious impaired driving behavior, what is the rush to arrest? Doing the right thing does not always end in arrest. I also have a rule of thumb when I conduct SFST's, if I have to look really hard for clues or have doubts that they failed...THEY PASS. They might have to catch a ride home, but they are not going to jail.

 

[Ericpwp]

Speaking of which - just saw this tonight.

Cops shut down mother?s Facebook before killing her, injuring son | New York Post

In before the "what's her INGO username".

 

[Stickfight]

Never been a particularly easy occupation. Shares one attribute with pro athletes...those who aren't capable of sharing the field are never short on criticism.

Thanks for the tie-in, I hadn't thought of it that way.

While I've never been a cop, when I signed a contract to be a pro athlete I knew who my customers would be and knew they would have opinions about my performance even though few if any of them could ride a bike faster than me. I can't imagine an adult not thinking of that sort of thing before choosing a career but I guess it takes all types.