Complaints, nitpickings, and lamentations on American rifles

[ChalupaCabras]

I try to buy American whenever possible. I love American products, and knowing that another American built my gun.

When It comes to rifles however, I find myself in a bit of a pickle. After my rambling, you may be asking yourself just what that may be. Lack of selection.

I fancy myself a Rifleman. Of all the rifles I own, only one of them has a scope. That rifle is a .22 thats dedicated to pest control and small game hunting in brush where the magnification is a necessity. Every other rifle I own for every other purpose is strictly irons only.

I would like to buy a new center fire bolt action rifle for general purpose use. here is where I run into problems.

The only current production American rifles with Irons are the Savage Euro Classic (hunter "G" models are discontinued), Remington 700 BDL, and Ruger M77 International. CZ makes a fine FS model, but its a foreign gun.

To make matters worse, I'm very picky. Not only does this rifle need to have irons, but because I will actually use them, they have to be GOOD! This rules out the savage, whose irons I do not like in the least.

worse yet is that I see i can get an immaculate condition Finn M39 with fancy grain wood for 1/2 the price of any of these. Can anyone help me out?

 

[JNG]

Sure--start using scopes. No point in wearing irons only on. say, a .270 Remington 700 that will with proper glass hold a sub-moa group and shoot minute-of-deer to 500 yards and beyond if you do your part . . . .

Seriously, though, I've had great success using after-market irons on my Marlin leverguns. Dr. Tim Skinner custom makes a fantastic looking, very rugged, very functional aperature sight for the Marlins that attaches to reciever via the scope mount screwholes. I'm sure he'd be willing to fabricate a rear peep to your design.

 

[ATF Consumer]

I'd suck it up and get the Finn M39 and don't look back.
You'll be buying that rifle from a US citizen or gunshop...that's certainly helping out Americans.

 

[barrelmaker_2002]

If you find the right gunsmith to do it, I suspect you could put iron sights on just about any suitable rifle.

 

[jtmarine1911]

To make matters worse, I'm very picky. Not only does this rifle need to have irons, but because I will actually use them, they have to be GOOD! This rules out the savage, whose irons I do not like in the least.

Which Savage rifles are you referring to? I personally am a big fan of the older 340D and 340E rifles, and you do have a large selection nowadays of aftermarket iron sights.

 

[cosermann]

You can't swap out the factory sights for something you like? That's pretty common.

 

[elaw555]

If a rifle with iron sights is what you want then .mil bolt action rifles are what you are looking for. As an example, pick up a good k98 for 250-350, a 50 dollar scope mount, and a scope of your choosing, and you have a very accurate rifle in a versatile caliber with good iron sights. Same goes for any number of .mil bolt action rifles. If buying American is a priority, be prepared to spend more, but 1903's are available at good prices.

 

[SWAT-DOC]

Get ya a good Remington 700...308 they are good out to 800-1000 yards if you top it with good glass. After all a scope only helps you "see" better not "shoot" better. A 300 Win mag if you want more distance. If you don't reload ...stick with a caliber that you can get supplies of match grade ammo like Federal Gold Medal. Not sure what you have against scopes.

 

[andyrping]

I have found that a lot of factory sights aren't very good anyway. Best bet is to get some aftermarket and have a gunsmith install. That way you won't limit your selection. There are many fine US made rifles currently in production: Kimber, Montana Rifleman, new Winchester Model 70 to name a few. Main reason most companies don't put them on anymore is that the majority of people end up taking them off and using glass. However, I am by no means saying the iron sights don't have thier virtues. I prefer apertures myself.

I believe also that some of the new Ruger Hawkeyes have open iron's on them. I believe they were the new RCM's and perhaps a few others.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

There will be no scope. I have no use for such things.

I do have use for decent Irons. As for swapping them out, any gunsmith will tell you that specs on a "3/8" dovetail vary wildly. It is very common for replacement sight to require fitting to the host rifle.

The savage models I was referring to are the 11/111G and the 14/114 Euro. As I understand it, they are the only recent models to offer adjustable Irons. Those Irons are merely adequate; they are not what I would call quality.

The 700BDL and M77 International do indeed come equipped with Irons that are quite good. The international would fit my bill perfectly if it were not for its carbine barrel. I'm not interested in the Hawkeye because I will not buy Rugers proprietary cartridges.

I'm trying to steer clear of military surplus simply because I require access to quality sporting ammunition. While MilSurps do brag cheap and plentiful ammunition, the only way you can get quality loads for most of them is to pay through the wazoo for Norma or Lapua ammo.

Several European makers still make rifles that meet my requirements. For around the same cost as the Remington, I could get a CZ 550FS or a Steyr Pro Hunter. Both rifles are quality and come with good solid irons.

Not sure what you have against scopes.

I have nothing against them. I just don't want or need one. If a man asked you about a bicycle, you wouldn't recommend he buy a car. I'm asking about irons, and everyone is telling me to buy a scope, because thats what they would use. Nothing wrong with using a scope, but thats not what I need.

At this rate I will probably default to the 700BDL in 30-06, simply because nothing else in America offers legitimate competition for a full length barrel.

 

[elaw555]

I'm trying to steer clear of military surplus simply because I require access to quality sporting ammunition. While MilSurps do brag cheap and plentiful ammunition, the only way you can get quality loads for most of them is to pay through the wazoo for Norma or Lapua ammo.

Understandable. If buying American and quality ammo are qualifiers then it sounds like a Springfield 1903 is what you need. .30-06 ammo is everywhere and quality ammo is affordable.

Food for thought...Hornady .30-06 150gr soft point ammo is the exact same price per round as the Hornady 65.x50mm Jap 140gr soft point I feed my Arisaka Type 38 Carbine. Of course the difference most people see in ammo is that there is widely available .30-06 surplus and former .mil ammo at half the price per round. The Hornady 6.5mm is the only rounds I can get without paying out the nose for Norma ammo.

 

[fireball168]

I'm not interested in the Hawkeye because I will not buy Rugers proprietary cartridges.

Unsure if they are special distributor/retailer runs or what, but I've seen a handful of Hawkeye's in wood and synthetic with iron sights in 308 and 358 Winchester.

The 358 was at Cabela's in Hammond last month, new - but on the used rack.


If nothing else, buy a Forster sight fixture and install them yourself. I prefer the offerings of New England Custom Gun (NECG).

 

[ChalupaCabras]

Understandable. If buying American and quality ammo are qualifiers then it sounds like a Springfield 1903 is what you need. .30-06 ammo is everywhere and quality ammo is affordable.

Food for thought...Hornady .30-06 150gr soft point ammo is the exact same price per round as the Hornady 65.x50mm Jap 140gr soft point I feed my Arisaka Type 38 Carbine. Of course the difference most people see in ammo is that there is widely available .30-06 surplus and former .mil ammo at half the price per round. The Hornady 6.5mm is the only rounds I can get without paying out the nose for Norma ammo.

Thank you Sir! I forgot all about the Springfield.