Class 3 registration

[resdep]

The Sheriff dept I work for has a 1921 Thompson and a Model 50 Reising that was given to them in the 80's (may have been earlier than that). They were never registered. We contacted the ATF a few years ago and were told there is no way to transfer them and that the dept could keep them or give them to the ATF. We are being told now by a new Sheriff in another county that they can be registered and the sold or traded. I can't find anything on the ATF website that would indicate the laws have changed. Anybody had any experience with kind of situation?
resdep

 

[esrice]

I would PM curraheeguns from SSNFA. He should be able to help.

 

[Glock18FA]

If they were never registered before 1986 then they can not be sold to the general population. They can only be sold to other PD's, museums or a government agency.

That doesnt mean they are worthless. As stated above contact Corey and see what he can still do for your department.

 

[resdep]

Thanks for the input, I have PMd curraheeguns,
resdep

 

[curraheeguns]

Thanks for the input, I have PMd curraheeguns,
resdep

I am responding to the more personal questions via PM, but wanted to respond to the larger question here in case anyone else finds themselves in the same situation.

The first and foremost important thing is to call and double check that the weapons are not in the registry. Don't go by handed down information that they are not.

Assuming that you have already done that, and that they have indeed never been registered. then........bad news. You only have two options.

Option #1- ATF Form 10 Registration- Once Form 10'd weapons can never again be owned by anyone other then a government agency. The value of Form 10 guns is pennies on the dollar. Example, a MG that would be a $21k transferable, as a pre-may sample may be $14k, if it were a post-may it would be $1500 and as a Form 10 gun it would be $250-$500.

A good example of this is a Post-May all original IMI Israeli Army Uzi I recently bought. This gun came straight from the Israeli Army inventory to the US. If it were imported before 1986 it would easily be a $4000-$5000 gun, but it was imported after 1986 (and registered) so it is only worth about $800. But if this gun got into the US some way and never registered, then Form 10'd by a police department, at the most it would maybe be worth $250.

This brings me to the option that shocks and suprises most people.

Option #2- Demill For Parts Kits- It is hard to believe but demilling machineguns in many ways (although sicking) makes them worth more then the original product. Especially for PD's. I recently did this for a large Indiana PD with 11 M3A1 Greaseguns. They were in the same situation as you. The fact was, they could let the guns sit in a safe for another 60 years and collect dust and still never be able to register them or they could demill them and buy the department several thousand dollars worth of brand new high tech equipment. They chose the latter and the officers on that department (and 11 WWII collectors that bought parts kits) are better off for it.

Now-
I am sure someone is going to start yelling that you can donate them to a museum and save them. I don't know all the rules on this, but I do know that I have inspected dozens of WWII machineguns in the Indiana War Memorial Vaults and every one I inspected were demilled by having the bolts welded shut and the barrels filled with some type of metal. I was told this was a ATF requirement. I do not know if this was an old requirement, a new requirement or a current requirement.....just saying.

 

[esrice]

He should be able to help.

Told ya!

Thanks Corey!

 

[samot]

Parts kits !!!!

let some one use the parts !!! Just destroy the reciecer & barrel per ATF specs

 

[curraheeguns]

Parts kits !!!!

let some one use the parts !!! Just destroy the reciecer & barrel per ATF specs

Barrel doesn't have to be cut. Only the receiver, it would have to be torch cut in three places.

 

[samot]

I thought the barrel had to have 3 holes the size of the bore in the barrel ??

The old HK kits i used to buy didnt have the holes drilled in them , but in the last yr the 4 kits ive gotten had 3 holes the size of the bore drilled.
And none of the kits ive had were torch cut (15+) all were saw cut !!!!
Kits from APEX, HK parts.net, & HK specialists !!
Not trying to make apples outa oranges , just explaining my experience with parts kits !

From the NFA handbook
"Alternative methods of destruction may also be aceptable.
These alternative methods must be equivilent in degree to the approved method of destruction . To ensure compliance with the law, it is recommended that the importer submit in writing the alternative method of destruction to the ATF firearms technology branch for review & approval prior to importation"

 

[curraheeguns]

You are correct that alternative forms can be approved in writing, but they didn't require the holes in the bbl on any models I have ever demilled and I always call tech branch and get the demill specs emailed directly to me from ATF

They do require holes in the barrels of things like motor tubes and grenade launchers, bazooka's ect.

 

[JTinIN]

There are in the last few years additional regulations limiting the import of machine gun (and similar non sporting arms) barrels, which as the story goes is the reason for the barrels having the holes drilled or missing from the recently imported kits.

 

[curraheeguns]

There are in the last few years additional regulations limiting the import of machine gun (and similar non sporting arms) barrels, which as the story goes is the reason for the barrels having the holes drilled or missing from the recently imported kits.

That makes sense then, it's an import rule and not a demill rule.

 

[indykid]

Really the idea of a police department just putting them back into their safe and sitting on them for another 60 years isn't a bad idea if you are an optimist and believe that one day we will get our second amendment rights returned to us and the 1986 law found unconstitutional, null and void.

 

[Glock18FA]

Really the idea of a police department just putting them back into their safe and sitting on them for another 60 years isn't a bad idea if you are an optimist and believe that one day we will get our second amendment rights returned to us and the 1986 law found unconstitutional, null and void.

Then we could manufacture new ones.

 

[samot]

There are in the last few years additional regulations limiting the import of machine gun (and similar non sporting arms) barrels, which as the story goes is the reason for the barrels having the holes drilled or missing from the recently imported kits.

that does make sence

importation law