CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: General Religious Discussion...

[JettaKnight]

I've read the bible so I know the insane things in it, I've not read the book of mormon so I get the insane things second hand from things like southpark. Both are insane, just one is more recent. In a few hundred years they'll probably be held in the same regard.

The prophecy escape hatch doesn't strike me as any different than the Christian reinterpretation escape hatch. If something doesnt jive with wider society or fit a church goal then you just reinterpretate that portion or better yet over ride it with a contradictory passage.

Reinterpretation? Care to elaborate on what you think is be reinterpreted? Or what passages you think contradict?

Are we talking about esoteric stuff like end times? Or Baptism? Or just the general misunderstanding about the the law? (e.g. why was shrimp bad, but now it's good?) Of course, I can only speak to Protestantism, and (...sorry TLex), I'll quickly claim that the RCC doesn't just reinterpret, they completely add things.



Now, if you're speaking to "progressive" churches that are LGBTQ affirming, then yeah, that's reinterpretation; and in many cases it's just plain defying the text.

 

[JettaKnight]

So, this is a bit nuanced - which I'm sure you'll appreciate.

Christ... "updated" (my word, not dogma) the prior Jewish law. God certainly has that power.

Mormonism does appear to diverge from Christian scripture. In my earthly opinion, 3 things could be going on:
- it is heretical;
- there is a misunderstanding of what God has said and that misunderstanding is at the root of the discrepancy;
- God is updating scripture with Mormonism.

I have not studied it in any real depth to have an opinion which of those 3 are most likely. I remember reading up on it and thinking, "Whoa - this is out there." So, I do not feel that it is God's chosen vector to reach me. I hope that one day, if I am ever reunited with God's perfect understanding, I'll know for sure.

Until then, I am personally reluctant to fully embrace #1 option - particularly as I'm cognizant of the fact that my chosen Christian tradition is often labelled heretical. (Sometimes even here on INGO.)

A rational assessment.


And being Baptist, I've got a full, auto-inking stamped labeled "Heretical!"

 

[HoughMade]

Mormonism does appear to diverge from Christian scripture. In my earthly opinion, 3 things could be going on:
- it is heretical;
- there is a misunderstanding of what God has said and that misunderstanding is at the root of the discrepancy;
- God is updating scripture with Mormonism...

...a guy thought that he knew better than orthodox theology how things should work, so he made up a story of finding gold plates buried on a hill and with his seer stone and hat, spun a glorious tale about a Jewish community in the Americas.....

 

[T.Lex]

...Of course, I can only speak to Protestantism, and (...sorry TLex), I'll quickly claim that the RCC doesn't just reinterpret, they completely add things.

I think you misspelled "incorporate the tradition of the church as formed by Christ personally."

 

[T.Lex]

...a guy thought that he knew better than orthodox theology how things should work, so he made up a story of finding gold plates buried on a hill and with his seer stone and hat, spun a glorious tale about a Jewish community in the Americas.....

Is God incapable of such things?



I remember reading of the Beta Israel groups in Africa. That seemed extraordinary, too.

 

[JettaKnight]

...a guy thought that he knew better than orthodox theology how things should work, so he made up a story of finding gold plates buried on a hill and with his seer stone and hat, spun a glorious tale about a Jewish community in the Americas.....

Are we talking about Palm Beach or Borough Park, NY?

Is God incapable of such things?



I remember reading of the Beta Israel groups in Africa. That seemed extraordinary, too.

Maybe I'm answering a question that should not be answered, but J.S. prophecy and additional scripture came with no sign to lend credence and speak to the veracity of it. And when compared to existing scripture, there's way, way more "reinterpretation", than skeptics claim about Christianity. So yes, God is capable of it, but it certainly doesn't pass the smell test.



Oh, and sorry T.Lex, I'm still influenced by yesterday's sermon on the Magnificat which took a detour to discuss how the RCC took it way too far. I mean really, can you imagine Joseph's life if his son and his wife were perfect... and he was forced to be celibate - because reasons.

Side note, I can't blame the RCC for the doctrine of perpetual virginity, as it precedes it. And I still don't understand what's so appealing about that doctrine.

 

[HoughMade]

Is God incapable of such things?...

...incapable...loaded term.

I'll just say that setting up a system where "you too can be the Elohim of your own galaxy"....seems unlikely given it's complete contradictions to everything stated about the nature of God in the real Bible, yours, mine......

 

[T.Lex]

Maybe I'm answering a question that should not be answered, but J.S. prophecy and additional scripture came with no sign to lend credence and speak to the veracity of it. And when compared to existing scripture, there's way, way more "reinterpretation", than skeptics claim about Christianity. So yes, God is capable of it, but it certainly doesn't pass the smell test.

...incapable...loaded term.

I'll just say that setting up a system where "you too can be the Elohim of your own galaxy"....seems unlikely given it's complete contradictions to everything stated about the nature of God in the real Bible, yours, mine......

I'm totally comfortable saying that I haven't studied Mormonism or its origin story very deeply, but that what I have read makes me very skeptical. More skeptical than usual, even.

But, to go back to the post that brought this up, I would not advocate for de-platforming something simply because it was based on Mormonism or written by Mormons.

 

[JettaKnight]

I'm totally comfortable saying that I haven't studied Mormonism or its origin story very deeply, but that what I have read makes me very skeptical. More skeptical than usual, even.

But, to go back to the post that brought this up, I would not advocate for de-platforming something simply because it was based on Mormonism or written by Mormons.

Oh yeah, there was a reason we were discussing this...


I guess if it was a health textbook, and the section on hygeine was talking about underwear...

 

[T.Lex]

Or an RCC text on family planning....

 

[HoughMade]

Go back? Seems like work.

Deplatforming?

No.

....if someone wants a few thoughts about whether Mormonism is "Christian" from someone who has studied Mormonism, I can oblige, but first, we'll have to settle on out definitions...and that may end the whole thing right there.

I will agree that the Mormons I know are great people with a personal morality that they strive to uphold....works-based religions that you truly believe in have a tendency to do that.

 

[Jludo]

Reinterpretation? Care to elaborate on what you think is be reinterpreted? Or what passages you think contradict?

Are we talking about esoteric stuff like end times? Or Baptism? Or just the general misunderstanding about the the law? (e.g. why was shrimp bad, but now it's good?) Of course, I can only speak to Protestantism, and (...sorry TLex), I'll quickly claim that the RCC doesn't just reinterpret, they completely add things.



Now, if you're speaking to "progressive" churches that are LGBTQ affirming, then yeah, that's reinterpretation; and in many cases it's just plain defying the text.

Just thumbing through the first few verses here the text says god created the earth in 6 days. Sounds pretty straightforward to me just reading the text.

 

[ATM]

Just thumbing through the first few verses here the text says god created the earth in 6 days. Sounds pretty straightforward to me just reading the text.

The actual text doesn't even suggest that, let alone say it.

You're kinda bad at this.

 

[HoughMade]

Just thumbing through the first few verses here the text says god created the earth in 6 days. Sounds pretty straightforward to me just reading the text.

I agree.

What's the problem?

 

[Jludo]

I agree.

What's the problem?

You agree the earth was created in 6 days? I suppose any argument I make is a moot point to a Christian fundamentalist so I won't bother point out anything else I find has been reinterpreted, as any reinterpretation is obviously wrong.

Contradictions though:
Genesis 32:30
Jacob claims to have seen God face to face.
John 1:18
Claims no one has seen Gods face except Jesus(who of course is also God)

 

[JettaKnight]

Buzzer can be mute, points can be moot.


As to Jacob, hmmm. That does appear to be contradictory; one I've never been presented before.

 

[ATM]

Jacob only wrestled with an angel, a representative of the Lord.

Plenty of apologetic sites out there dealing with supposed contradictions such as this. Easy enough to google to see if you've found a stumper or not.

Apologetics Press - Has Man Seen God—Yes or No?

 

[Dead Duck]

You agree the earth was created in 6 days? I suppose any argument I make is a moot point to a Christian fundamentalist so I won't bother point out anything else I find has been reinterpreted, as any reinterpretation is obviously wrong.

Contradictions though:
Genesis 32:30
Jacob claims to have seen God face to face.
John 1:18
Claims no one has seen Gods face except Jesus(who of course is also God)

Well....
You convinced me.


I'm going to start burning my bibles ASAP.

 

[Jludo]

The actual text doesn't even suggest that, let alone say it.

You're kinda bad at this.

I must be reading the wrong version then, that's what my NIV says, what are you looking at?

 

[Jludo]

Well....
You convinced me.


I'm going to start burning my bibles ASAP.

Thomas J got more mileage out of his bible with a razor blade and glue stick.