CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: General Religious Discussion...

[Ziggidy]

While we're on the topic - would you guys go to a kind of "civil commitment ceremony" for gay friends/family? Or congratulate them on something like that?

What I say now and what I do in the moment "may" be different.

My heart tells me no on both.

I knew a chaplain whose husband worked for a company in Chicago. When they had their gay pride parade a few years back, they both were there and in many ways showed support for the gay parade. We had a long discussion about that (on FB). She was showing support for her husband who was actually showing support through his work. He does not work there any more.

Everyone likes a parade.....we need to be careful of the wolf in sheeps clothing.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

While we're on the topic - would you guys go to a kind of "civil commitment ceremony" for gay friends/family? Or congratulate them on something like that?

If I would attend a heterosexual ceremony for the same person, without a doubt. I'm affirming OUR relationship by being there. My first marriage was interracial. Most of my mother's side of the family refused to attend our small ceremony. Grandpa thought it was a sin, you see, because robins mate with robins and bluebirds mate with bluebirds. Some who privately told me they would like to attend didn't want to rock the boat with the family patriarch. It strained or severed many relationships.

The only realistic option I have at this point to be invited is my cousin in Atlanta. He's gay and has a long term boyfriend. If he invited me to a wedding, I'd go because I love *him* as a family member and someone who's been kind and respectful to me, my wife, and my son. Avoid a major part of his life, strain the relationship with him and his parents, because he's gay? Is he going to stop being gay if I don't attend? Not marry someone he loves? My being there or not is 100% irrelevant to his "gayness" or decision on who he loves and if they marry or not. I can support him and love him as a person even if I don't condone everything he does.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Love God. Love your Neighbor. Even the gay one, right?

Absolutely. I love my kids whether they misbehave or not. But not participating or condoning or affirming their poor decisions is not not showing love.

Somehow we've gotten the idea that what anybody decides to do with their life's choices we are not being loving if we don't celebrate them. I don't agree with this.

And yes, Jesus would love the person no matter what sin they're committing but he's not above flipping over tables and chasing people with whips to show them the errors of their ways.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Absolutely. I love my kids whether they misbehave or not. But not participating or condoning or affirming their poor decisions is not not showing love.

"You know I don't approve of XXX, but I'm here because I love you" seems better to me then not going.

 

[Honey_and_Vinegar]

While we're on the topic - would you guys go to a kind of "civil commitment ceremony" for gay friends/family? Or congratulate them on something like that?

It would be extremely difficult to swallow the reality of a family member falling into this lifestyle.

The answer would be no, I could not attend a gay friend/family wedding. Although I would love my family and friends still, I do not accept their lifestyle choices.

It's imperative as a Christian to not accept a sinful lifestyle. This is not to point out others sin and not my own, because I sin everyday as well. This is also not an attack on the individual themselves, but it's a denial of a sinful lifestyle.

 

[indiucky]

Love God. Love your Neighbor. Even the gay one, right?

Yes sir...Right before our wedding my cousin came out of the closet....He was invited to the wedding and I told him he could bring a guest...He did, a handsome black dude....When they came in together all eyes were upon them and then switched to me to see what my reaction would be......I walked up to them both with a big grin, hugged my cousin and whispered "I was scared you wouldn't come...." I heard him choke up a bit, compose himself and say, "I'd like to introduce you to a friend of mine" I shook his friends hand then hugged him and whispered to him, "Treat him right or you'll have to deal with me..."

I then stepped back and grinned at them both....I was just honored to have them there...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

"You know I don't approve of XXX, but I'm here because I love you" seems better to me then not going.

Your mileage may vary. But in the case of homosexual "marriage"/commitment ceremonies, I think the way the most infamous cake baker and florist approached it prior to their homosexual wedding cases went are the best. Show them how much you love them as a person, as a fellow image bearer of God. Sometimes love is demonstrated by saying 'no'.

In your case that you mentioned above, we're all image bearers of God. It's a shame that we ever got to the point as a people that we judged people on their skin color as it being equivalent to their actions and behaviors. Being a member of a different "race" is not rebellion against God. Hopefully, your family has grown and moved passed this and if you were to do it all over again, it would be different. For the record, most of my family would have reacted much the same as yours had I fallen in love with a person of another race.

Homosexual marriage is not equivalent to interracial marriage. God loves the homosexual as much as the black woman or the white guy from Tennessee. But he does hate that we all rebel against him. (I'm just glad he gives a way for forgiveness).

 

[Ziggidy]

Celebrating a marriage, union, whatever is so very different than celebrating a particular individual. When we attend a marriage or union between 2 people, we are celebrating "with them" their special day, which is a bond between 2 people. If they are gay, we celebrate their bond - which in God's words, a sin. If we celebrate a birthday or other special day for them individually, I would attend because we in fact are celebrating a special "individual" day; rather than a "couples day". One is a celebration of a person, the other a celebration of a special bond between 2 people. Totally different.

I would not have any difficulty inviting gay friends to my special days, birthdays, Thanksgiving and such. I try to be like Christ (although I fail miserably). Love the person (individual) but hate the sin. Birthdays and such are a celebration of the person. A gay marriage ceremony is a celebration of the sin.

Divorces can be a similar situation, depending on the circumstances. My celebrating with them would be determined by many circumstances surrounding the divorce and new marriage. Sounds snobby, I know.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

When we attend a marriage or union between 2 people, we are celebrating "with them" their special day, which is a bond between 2 people.

I disagree. Mere presence doesn't indicate celebration or even acceptance. The reason you are there is your own motivation to be there, and that can certainly range from celebration into some pretty negative things. I'm sure many of us remember some catty older women who weren't there to celebrate anything, but there to pretend to be scandalized that "she chose to wear white" and gossip. Are they really celebrating the marriage? People you hardly know but they have an open bar afterward? Are you celebrating or suffering through in order to claim your reward of free booze?

 

[Ziggidy]

Are they really celebrating the marriage? People you hardly know but they have an open bar afterward? Are you celebrating or suffering through in order to claim your reward of free booze?

Yes, many people are celebrating "with" them. Give a card, a few bucks - why? Celebrating the occasion.....regardless of intent.

I don't drink; I'm celebrating the event - as many others do.

Some celebrate divorce - in the manner they celebrate the union. It can, and is, viewed as a celebrating event.

 

[epeery]

"You know I don't approve of XXX, but I'm here because I love you" seems better to me then not going.

If they were breaking a law (for example robbing someone) but invited you to join them, would you do so while telling them you don't approve? If not, why do you place less value on your beliefs?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If they were breaking a law (for example robbing someone) but invited you to join them, would you do so while telling them you don't approve? If not, why do you place less value on your beliefs?

Since I just spent 6 years as a robbery detective, I'd arrest them, not join them. I don't see how victimizing someone by using or threatening violence against them is related to the question of attending a service for a gay couple, though.

 

[foszoe]

If I was truly conflicted, I would talk to my priest/spiritual father about it and do whatever they advised.

While we're on the topic - would you guys go to a kind of "civil commitment ceremony" for gay friends/family? Or congratulate them on something like that?

 

[foszoe]

https://www.theatlantic.com/interna...ificial-intelligence-religion-atheism/565076/

 

[BugI02]

I think BBI has the right of this. You focus perhaps too much on your abhorence for the particular type of sin (homosexuality). Would you attend a friend or family member's wedding if they were marrying into the LDS church? How about one marrying a Buddhist or a Shinto?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I think BBI has the right of this. You focus perhaps too much on your abhorence for the particular type of sin (homosexuality). Would you attend a friend or family member's wedding if they were marrying into the LDS church? How about one marrying a Buddhist or a Shinto?

Eh...not quite apples and apples. I see what you're trying to point out. If a friend decided he was no longer a Christian and wanted to join another reiligion like Islam, Buddhism, etc., then no, I would not attend whatever ceremony they have to induct new believers to support him/her in that decision. On the other hand, in your example, assuming they're heterosexual marriages, even though they're being officiated by a different religion, they are at the very least conforming to God's plan of man and woman joining together to become a single flesh.

 

[BugI02]

Ahh, I see. Then if heterosexuality is the overriding concern, what would you think of a friend or acquaintance becoming a second or third (or n+1) wife in a polygamous sect sucha s some LDS splinters cleave to? It would still be heterosexual. I would assume, like me, you believe God's plan is for one woman and one man

And as far as the friends/acquaintances and other religions, I meant that they had already converted (else they could not marry within that particular religion) and the occasion was the heterosexual union. What about a man or woman converting to judaism and marrying within that religion?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Eh...not quite apples and apples. I see what you're trying to point out. If a friend decided he was no longer a Christian and wanted to join another reiligion like Islam, Buddhism, etc., then no, I would not attend whatever ceremony they have to induct new believers to support him/her in that decision. On the other hand, in your example, assuming they're heterosexual marriages, even though they're being officiated by a different religion, they are at the very least conforming to God's plan of man and woman joining together to become a single flesh.

I think that's an honest distinction. Does a civil only service "count" for most Christians? As in are you considered actually married if there's no accompanying religious ceremony?

 

[historian]

I just want to pop in and chime in about the "attendance says more about you than the ceremony" idea. At almost any wedding, you are a witness, in a moral sense, not a legal one. "We are gathered as witnesses." We have a moral obligation to ensure that the marriage stays together. I can't promise that about a homosexual wedding. In fact, my goal is the opposite in the long run. I would love to see both of the people come to Christ, leave their sinful lifestyle, and therefore the marriage.

 

[epeery]

Since I just spent 6 years as a robbery detective, I'd arrest them, not join them. I don't see how victimizing someone by using or threatening violence against them is related to the question of attending a service for a gay couple, though.

Simply pointing out that if a person believes two things are both wrong, why are they so willing to respond to them completely differently. Perhaps robbery wasn't the best example, but I was trying to find something that is still pretty universally considered unacceptable as compared to the things that seem to have become gray areas for many people.