CIVIL RELIGIOUS DISCUSSION: All things Islam...

[gregr]

I don't know how the love of God relates to your statement "he makes special allowances for Muhammad but that only detracts from the integrity of the text". But every sin for everyone can be completely washed away after a person duly turns to his Lord in sincere repentance:

Say, "O My servants who have transgressed against your souls! Despair not of the grace of God, for God forgives sins, all of them, for He is much forgiving, most merciful." (39:53)

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Another ayah says:

My mercy has encompassed everything. (7:156)

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You can imagine that in Islam, God's mercy with his servants is even more than our own mothers. I really can't grasp your point of trying to deny an attribute of God in Islam.

Please, let`s do discuss the verses that incite to murder...

 

[gregr]

And whose god. I find little difference between Son of Sam talking to his dog and Israelites mass-murdering Canaanites at the behest of J.

There are only two gods. There is the god of this world, Satan. Then there is the one true living God, whose son is Jesus Christ.

 

[Alpo]

You forgot the "I believe" again.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

You forgot the "I believe" again.

But...

google is your friend

(this is a cop-out)

These observations from you non-scientific types are worn-out tropes. There is no need to argue with those who reject scientific evidence in favor of gods, goddesses and the like. Sorry. Your religion represents less than 35% of the population of the world. Those who believe exactly as you are a substantially smaller subset of that 35%. I tend not to debate such points with those who argue equivalency of their beliefs with the present state of science. You are 2000 years out of date.

(this is a generalization, and a cop-out, and an attempt to minimalize religion [and those that follow it] as-a-whole without attempting to debate/discuss it)

Do you actually want to have a civil religious discussion, or do you want to tell them how wrong they are without providing any argument?

Stick to your strengths.

 

[jamil]

Certainly "I believe" that, because it is truth.

Well, from your perspective. You believing a thing doesn't make the thing the absolute truth.

 

[Alpo]

GP: I don't want to debate religious philosophy, epistemology or ontology with anyone who has made up his mind about his religious ideals and beliefs. They are welcome to them.

I've just pulled you off ignore. Please don't tempt me to put you back there again.

 

[jamil]

But...


Stick to your strengths.

He is!

 

[jamil]

I don't want to tell anyone who has made up his mind about spirituality and thing. They are welcome to their beliefs. They should recognize that all do not think like they do.

I've just pulled you off ignore. Please don't tempt me to put you back there again.

Oh come on. He was right about the generalization stuff. Cop out is probably a matter of opinion.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

I don't want to tell anyone who has made up his mind about spirituality and thing. They are welcome to their beliefs. They should recognize that all do not think like they do.

I agree. Absolutists on both sides are difficult, aren't they?

I've just pulled you off ignore. Please don't tempt me to put you back there again.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I've just pulled you off ignore. Please don't tempt me to put you back there again.

 

[Alpo]

[video=youtube_share;WZOW5GdgCGw]http://youtu.be/WZOW5GdgCGw[/video]

 

[RobbyMaQ]

You forgot the "I believe" again.

I guess I won't live that down... and I respect that.
Call me crazy... live and let live man. Or am I supposed to convince you to think my way? or worse, predict when you might act wrongly due to thinking the 'wrong' way?
Not you specifically... just generally re: not respecting religious beliefs without 'proof' <-- kind of funny right there

 

[Alpo]

? That was a reference to GregR and his tendency to speak of his theology as the only correct interpretation of the physical and metaphysical universe. Not you.

 

[jamil]

I guess I won't live that down... and I respect that.
Call me crazy... live and let live man. Or am I supposed to convince you to think my way? or worse, predict when you might act wrongly due to thinking the 'wrong' way?
Not you specifically... just generally re: not respecting religious beliefs without 'proof' <-- kind of funny right there

If you don't think my way. I'm just going to hold my breath.

 

[Route 45]

This **** keeps me up at night. Can't fathom it.

Annihilation has no terrors for me, because I have already tried it before I was born—a hundred million years—and I have suffered more in an hour, in this life, than I remember to have suffered in the whole hundred million years put together. - Mark Twain

 

[RobbyMaQ]

? That was a reference to GregR and his tendency to speak of his theology as the only correct interpretation of the physical and metaphysical universe. Not you.

Sorry. got some guff over my respect of beliefs comment. difficult to follow. I apologize.
I did mention it wasn't direct at you specifically.

 

[jamil]

This **** keeps me up at night. Can't fathom it.

Oh. I forgot to comment on this.

I think this is why so many religions have an afterlife belief. It's just kinda hard to think about not thinking to the point where people think there just has to be more.

I look at it this way. I don't sweat what I can't change. I can't change death from being whatever it is to whatever I'd rather it be. So if it is just lights out. That's all it is. When you turn that old computer off for the last time, it doesn't "think" anymore. For life with consciousness, hardware + software = thought/consciousness. Take one away, you have no thought. No consciousness.

Not hard to fathom at all.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Oh. I forgot to comment on this.

I think this is why so many religions have an afterlife belief. It's just kinda hard to think about not thinking to the point where people think there just has to be more.

I look at it this way. I don't sweat what I can't change. I can't change death from being whatever it is to whatever I'd rather it be. So if it is just lights out. That's all it is. When you turn that old computer off for the last time, it doesn't "think" anymore. For life with consciousness, hardware + software = thought/consciousness. Take one away, you have no thought. No consciousness.

Not hard to fathom at all.

To touch on one of your earlier comments... this concept is almost supernatural. Life literally ends. All life as it was and ever will be... is over. If you can't perceive it, it's no longer there. We don't know when we started understanding consciousness... but we have no idea what the lack of it is like. Once you're gone, there's nothing left in the universe.

****ed up.

I understand the desire... nay, the need for an afterlife belief.

 

[jamil]

To touch on one of your earlier comments... this concept is almost supernatural. Life literally ends. All life as it was and ever will be... is over. If you can't perceive it, it's no longer there. We don't know when we started understanding consciousness... but we have no idea what the lack of it is like. Once you're gone, there's nothing left in the universe.

****ed up.

I understand the desire... nay, the need for an afterlife belief.

I don't think it's supernatural. First, I'm not saying there isn't an afterlife. It's just that that isn't the most natural ending, really. Does a bug have a conscience? What happens to it when you step on it? What happens when we stop thinking? Why would it be more natural to think that our consciousness lives on? And I understand that's a hard thing for many people to think about, especially those who have lost people close to them.

I've lost a sister, 2 brothers, both parents. Everyone in my immediate family is gone. So I do understand the grief of dealing with death. And it's hard to think of your loved one's being gone. And I'm not disparaging those who believe in some kind of afterlife. Because I don't have any greater first hand knowledge about death than they do. But to me, it's kind of an Occam's razor issue. The simplest explanation seems the best. No supernatural stuff. Just lights out.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

RE; up at night occasionally, thinking about 'not being'? You're not alone... Difficult to fathom for me as well.
I'm not religious. Maybe that's part of it.
Afterlife, I'm not sure, but had a strange experience as a kid that doesn't convince me that it is inconceivable.