Child Protective Services: Legal Kidnapping For Profit?

[ATOMonkey]

IMO, we don't need better government, just better people.

I will give you my iron clad guarantee that for every child that is abused there is a family member or friend who knows exactly what is going on and does nothing about it.

No one wants to rock the boat.

That is why I love my wife so much. She saw that her cousin was going down a bad path. She was taking drugs, going out all night, sleeping all day, the house was filthy, the children weren't going school. So, she confronted her about it multiple times. It nearly cost them their friendship, but in the end it was exactly the wake up call that she needed.

 

[Benny]

I'll stand with you on that.

No force under heaven is going to take my children while I draw breath.

Amen.

I can deal with removing a child from a home environment, if there are extraordinary circumstances that demonstrate a reasonable and articulate suspicion of abuse and/or neglect.

Well of course there are plenty circumstances that warrant removing a child from their parent(s) every day. I was just saying that the circumstances in which my child lives doesn't fit into any of those categories.

So if CPS comes knocking on my door looking to meet some ****ed up quota, people. will. die. I'll probably be one of them, but like ATO said, no one is taking my baby from me while I'm alive. I KNOW Xander has two great parents that take care of him, so any CPS visit would be unwarranted...Unwarranted people aren't welcome here.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Its a sad nation that would leave children in a house where they are being beaten, sexually abused, or starved. We need a service in place to get children out of that situation.

I was one of these children you speak of (as was my brother and younger sister).. This is going to be a long read so I apologize in advance.

I'll preface by saying that I agree with everyone's position here about how CPS needs an overhaul, that there are situations that warrant removing children when they're not removed, and situations where children are left in horrible situations. How can the line be draw in the children's favor (and in the innocent parent's favor as need be ?)... read along for a minute if you will.

Withoug getting too in depth and posting my life story, suffice it to say that my mother was very physically and mentally abusive to us. For example, my brother's name was "boy" when we were growing up. She would holler down to the basement.. "Get your a$$ up here boy".. or at dinner time "you better sit down and eat, boy"..

George Michael came out with a sone that was a hit on the radio "I want your s_x" when my younger sister was very young. My sister's teacher called my mom and told her about a 'love note' that she gave to a boy at school and the teacher intercepted it. After the conversation with the teacher, my mom called down and wanted my sister to come upstairs. My brother and I were scared to death from all the smacking, banging, screaming, crying etc. going on that we honestly felt in our hearts that my mother was going to take my sister's life that day.

When I was a young 4 years old, I used to have #2 accidents. My mother would beat me with a leather belt and make me sit on a potty chair until I would go. I don't know too many folks that go more than once a day, so these were long days for me. I remember one afternoon, she was very angry at me and smeared my soiled underwear in my face. I remember every disgusting detail down to the brown tears as I cried and yelled for my dad. I remember her evil voice commanding him to go clean up his son.

My brother had a fetish for watches when he was in 4th or 5th grade. He even went so far as to steal them from other people's desks. He got caught by the principal one day. He ASKED THE PRINCIPAL to get spanked "so he wouldn't have to get it when he gets home".. The principal called CPS because that request seemed weird. They got my dad involved (at this time, my mom and dad were divorced, but mom was re-married). My dad was very excited becasue he might now have an opportunity to get custody of us.

I remember my mom, in a very threatening and fear mongering way, telling us "the people are going to ask you some questions and when they ask you this, THIS is what you say, if they ask this, you tell them THIS".. " and if you don't, they'll take you all away to blah blah hades, blah blah .. never see each other, or me, or your dad.. blah blah fear mongering... again". and WE BELIEVED HER...

CPS interviewed us all 3 separately. I don't remember the questions or the answers but I know I obeyed my mom. My dad was crushed. Now that we're adults, my dad and I have talked about all this and it broke his heart to know the situation and the people that COULD make it all change for the better, really couldn't because of the answers they got from the kids who were brainwashed by the abusive parent.

When I was about 15 or 16 I came out of the bathroom after showering. I tossed my dirty clothes into the hamper and my mom said "come here for a second".. she reached for my face and I flinched and stepped back. She asked why I flinched? I told her for 15 years the only time her hand was evre near my face was to slap me. (all she wanted to see was if i was far enough through puberty to begin shaving so she would buy me razors).. It was then that she realized the error of her ways.

True stories.. I could go on and on. Suffice it to say that my brother is 38 and a grown responsible man and still has nightmares about the things my mom did to him.

So when we play armchair quarterback and blame the system, remember there's a stronger oppositional force behind the abused children as well and sometimes, the system can only do so much with the information they have available to them.

Not defending anyone, just sayin.

 

[bingley]

I'm really sorry about what happened to you.

 

[daddymikey1975]

I'm really sorry about what happened to you.

Not to sensationalize things, but this is just a small snippet from my life.

Thanks for the empathy. I have been to therapy and make damn certain not to walk in my mother's foot steps with my own children.

 

[Benny]

I was one of these children you speak of (as was my brother and younger sister).. This is going to be a long read so I apologize in advance.

[snip]

So when we play armchair quarterback and blame the system, remember there's a stronger oppositional force behind the abused children as well and sometimes, the system can only do so much with the information they have available to them.

Thank you for sharing a piece of your life like that, but that was heart-breaking to read. My parents are still happily married...The only time my Mom laid a hand on me is if I did something BAD and my Dad never did because he's a big guy and thought he'd hurt me or something, so I won't even pretend to understand what you went through.

I understand what you are saying (last paragraph) and if it sounded like I was armchair quarterbacking the CPS as a whole, I didn't mean to. I know CPS lacks the capability of being perfect (like uh, everyone else) and I was just commenting on what would happen if they came to MY door...The door I know that behind it, our son is being loved and taken care of (and spoiled to a fault sometimes and that is on me more than his Mom).

 

[daddymikey1975]

Thank you for sharing a piece of your life like that, but that was heart-breaking to read. My parents are still happily married...The only time my Mom laid a hand on me is if I did something BAD and my Dad never did because he's a big guy and thought he'd hurt me or something, so I won't even pretend to understand what you went through.

I understand what you are saying (last paragraph) and if it sounded like I was armchair quarterbacking the CPS as a whole, I didn't mean to. I know CPS lacks the capability of being perfect (like uh, everyone else) and I was just commenting on what would happen if they came to MY door...The door I know that behind it, our son is being loved and taken care of (and spoiled to a fault sometimes and that is on me more than his Mom).

None of my post was aimed at you specifically, or anyone in particular for that matter. I was merely pointing out that sometimes, the agency that is supposed to be the child's advocate, simply can't take action unless they can prove beyond a reasonable suspicion that something is amiss.

For example.. I'm fairly certain the folks that interviewed my siblings and I would have HAD to suspect... but without concrete evidence/proof, there was simply no way they COULD take action.

I called and reported my sister for abusing my niece. She was living with my mom at the time and mom wouldn't make the call. When the guy came out to the house, I just 'happened' to be there to be a fly on the wall. My mom spoke with the guy on the phone earlier that day to get her side of the story and see if it corroborated with mine. My sister had him fooled/convinced that nothing was going on. Even suggested they 'get lunch' some time (evidently, she is quick at making friends)...While I didn't get to place cameras strategically to catch her, I was (and am still) 100% positive that my niece is/was being abused, however, without evidence, they cannot take action. They aren't allowed to actually 'do' anything without proof. They can and may show up to look into things.. but without some egregious proof, their hands are tied.

THAT is the unfortunate part for lots of children.

If anyone came to my door to investigate, they can ask questions from the front porch. Any attempt at removing my children would be met with deadly force as necessary as well.

 

[EvilBlackGun]

It's like PTSD

If no-body says anything, no help will come. Yet kids have wild imaginations, and can know how to twist fable into fact. When hormones begin raging, and parents keep the kids grounded, then trouble can develop. Kids lie to get out of the reach of parents. There ARE bad people out there waiting for the wandering teen or pre-teen to hit the street. (This is getting personal, and I may delete it.)

 

[daddymikey1975]

If no-body says anything, no help will come. Yet kids have wild imaginations, and can know how to twist fable into fact. When hormones begin raging, and parents keep the kids grounded, then trouble can develop. Kids lie to get out of the reach of parents. There ARE bad people out there waiting for the wandering teen or pre-teen to hit the street. (This is getting personal, and I may delete it.)

That is the catch-22.

As far as the bad people waiting for wandering teens, I couldn't agree more. This is why education from an early age is the key. Loving and nurturing the children help as well. Instead of being a dictator, have compassion and love the children the way they're supposed to be loved. Reward good behavior and demonstrate to them how bad behavior is not allowed.

Other times... well, there's a gun belt

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

I believe this is why transparency is absolutely critical in every aspect of government activity. Yes, even the CIA or Covert Ops, just in a more prudently timely fashion.

If we, as the people and society at large, cannot honestly, openly and objectively review the actions of those who are supposed to perform a task within certain limits and regulations then we can suffer from massive abuses of power.

Several of the Senators most powerful action points were an independent audit, trial by jury, and requiring a warrant. These would be wonderful checks on the abuses that occur.

I was blessed with two (2) wonderful parents. I am so very happy to have had them. However, I had a grandfather who was very nice when he was nice, and when he wasn't nice the opposite held true. I cannot imagine the suffering he caused when he was younger.

There are times when the defenseless and helpless require protection. This goes for children and parents alike.

I hope there is reform in the legislative pipeline that will address these shortcomings and focus CPS on its core mission and not chasing the almighty dollar.

Regards,

Doug

 

[gels]

My daughter works for CPS here in Indiana and I can tell you that they do not make money for keeping cases open. In Indiana, there is absolutely no money to be made by removing children or placing them in mental hospitals. I do not believe most of the other claims made by the Georgia senator. There are no adoption quotas here in Indiana and I question that there are in any state. CPS does not frivolously remove children from good homes. They want to help bad parents learn to become good parents so they can keep their children or regain custody of their children. They save children's lives every day with their actions but will most likely be criticized for it. CPS is blamed if they remove children or if they leave children in a home. CPS is blamed if they respond to a call or if they don't respond to a call. CPS workers go to court on children's behalfs every day in order to protect them from horrible adults. CPS is bound by regulations that change with the political party in control. Don't blame the individual social workers and some of things posted here simply aren't true based on what I've seen. If you knew the things parents are doing to their children in this state, you would be glad there are good social workers to investigate and advocate for them.

 

[daddymikey1975]

If you knew the things parents are doing to their children in this state, you would be glad there are good social workers to investigate and advocate for them.

Where was the advocate for my siblings and I ? Why did they not look into things deeper ? I have had a very screwed up life because of the things I endured. My sister grew up to be like my mom (very sad) and my brother is traumatized even at almost 40 years old.

Where is the advocate that can see through the blue eyes and blonde hair and the smile ? the advocate for my niece ? When will they save her from the terrorist that my sister has become ? I made the phone call when my mother wouldn't. I took action. My mom answered questions when they asked but they refused to believe that this "blond hair blue eyed girl" could do such things to my niece.

Just curious.

 

[IndyDave1776]

My daughter works for CPS here in Indiana and I can tell you that they do not make money for keeping cases open. In Indiana, there is absolutely no money to be made by removing children or placing them in mental hospitals. I do not believe most of the other claims made by the Georgia senator. There are no adoption quotas here in Indiana and I question that there are in any state. CPS does not frivolously remove children from good homes. They want to help bad parents learn to become good parents so they can keep their children or regain custody of their children. They save children's lives every day with their actions but will most likely be criticized for it. CPS is blamed if they remove children or if they leave children in a home. CPS is blamed if they respond to a call or if they don't respond to a call. CPS workers go to court on children's behalfs every day in order to protect them from horrible adults. CPS is bound by regulations that change with the political party in control. Don't blame the individual social workers and some of things posted here simply aren't true based on what I've seen. If you knew the things parents are doing to their children in this state, you would be glad there are good social workers to investigate and advocate for them.

It may appear from the curb to be a thankless job, but explain please, if these people are such crusaders in white, why do I know one man in prison who I have no doubt is completely innocent and two others who walked with impunity who are absolutely guilty? Your daughter may well be doing an honest and dedicated job of protecting children to the best of her abilities but many of the rest of us have seen evidence that this is far from universal.

 

[88GT]

There are many cases when CPS is truly needed. For the bogus cases they're not, I feel for the parents and their children. They're nothing more than a political whipping post and laughing stock for the black hearted media goons.

I can't think of one. CPS is an extra-legal authority usurped from the people to by-pass due process. Abuse is a crime. Neglect is a crime. Any legitimate case handled by CPS resulting in the confiscation of children should also result in the trial (and presumably a conviction) of the responsible parties. But how many of those parents/guardians/caregivers are arrested?

I was one of these children you speak of (as was my brother and younger sister).. This is going to be a long read so I apologize in advance.
**snip**

I'm glad you shared, but I have a question. Where was you dad when all this was happening? Where were the other responsible adults? No criticism is intended. I just don't understand the full dynamics here.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I can't think of one. CPS is an extra-legal authority usurped from the people to by-pass due process. Abuse is a crime. Neglect is a crime. Any legitimate case handled by CPS resulting in the confiscation of children should also result in the trial (and presumably a conviction) of the responsible parties. But how many of those parents/guardians/caregivers are arrested?



I'm glad you shared, but I have a question. Where was you dad when all this was happening? Where were the other responsible adults? No criticism is intended. I just don't understand the full dynamics here.

My guess and it is only that, a guess is that his dad wasn't the legal guardian and they really didn't care what he said, he was biased, so of course he had nothing good to say about the mother in their eyes

 

[Hammerhead]

I know of a family that had a baby that was under the care of a doctor who ignored the fact that the genetics from the mother were determining the development of the baby (size, weight, growth) because the father was generally the one who took the child to the doctor's appointments.

When the doctor was questioned by the parents about his concerns and treatment, the doctor took a very superior attitude over the family that he knew best. When he was really questioned and the parents asked for a second opinion, he forced CPS on the family who then forced the parents to follow every edict the doctor had.

The family was forced to disrupt their lives for two different weeks, at two different hospitals, because the doctor demanded that the family be observed. The second hospital stay was incredibly harsh for the family as the hospital staff ignored the requests and schedules of the family (daily nap time was interrupted no less than four times by various members of the "team"; can't keep the doctor ordered daily schedule when other doctors won't leave the kid alone).

At the end of the second stay, the entire team lied to the family and went to the CPS rep two days early with incomplete information (they admitted as such when questioned). CPS, based on this faulty and incomplete report had the hospital staff "take custody" of the child. The child, who ended up with some unexplainable sickness the last night that the family was supposed to be there and ended up vomiting all night and was then required to stay in the hospital now for real, for three extra days, because he became sick by being in a hospital full of germs.

The family had the child put into foster care, and were forced to go through the system because they dared question the doctor.

The family wasn't abusive to the child, and were loving and caring parents. They did eventually have their child returned. The family moved and found a new doctor that understood child development and genetics and saw absolutely no cause for the previous doctor's concerns and forced treatment.

The unfortunate thing for the family is that they ended up being drug into the system at the very same time that a little girl died in the care of her abusive family who locked her in the garage with little to no food and a mat to sleep on. She'd been taken from the mother and step-father before and returned, and as this happened, the bio-dad was trying to get custody because he knew the girl was being abused.

CPS came under direct fire (as did the sheriff's deputy that had responded to complaints but didn't have proof, however he didn't go into the home to put eyes on the child) because of this incident. There had been numerous complaints about the treatment of this little girl.

The county and the CPS office, in a knee jerk reaction, clamped down on everyone and the family that I've described above were caught up in what should have been a simple case and were run through the ringer because the CPS caseworkers didn't want to be seen as lacking.

The family is doing much better now, almost eight years later, and have learned from their mistakes. They don't trust CPS and will not interact with them, period. I don't blame them.

 

[daddymikey1975]

I can't think of one. CPS is an extra-legal authority usurped from the people to by-pass due process. Abuse is a crime. Neglect is a crime. Any legitimate case handled by CPS resulting in the confiscation of children should also result in the trial (and presumably a conviction) of the responsible parties. But how many of those parents/guardians/caregivers are arrested?

See my previous posts for one. My neice is another (just two that I'm aware of)

I'm glad you shared, but I have a question. Where was you dad when all this was happening? Where were the other responsible adults? No criticism is intended. I just don't understand the full dynamics here.

Mom and dad were divorced. It was an ugly one. My dad didn'thave the $$ to take my mom to court for custody as he was still trying to finish paying for the divorce.

Other responsible adult (besides my mom) was my step dad. She was very abusive towards him too. I recall her screaming at him all the time threatening divorce. After their marriage shook down (seven years later) he wound up taking over $60k from my mom and he was sleeping around quite a bit (not that I could blame him)..

To be fair, I never spoke with him (once I became an adult) about all of this. I did speak with my dad and he was upset that my step-dad never 'did' anything about it.

I've spoken with several educators on occasion and they tell me that my story is not unique and there is more of this type of thing going on than the average person is aware of FWIW.

(88GT, I'd be happy to exchange PM's about some of this dynamic in more detail if you're interested.. way too much to get into on a public forum )

 

[88GT]

See my previous posts for one. My neice is another (just two that I'm aware of)

I know there are convictions. But logic says that if CPS has legal grounds to remove a child, the parents have to be committing a crime. Why is it that so many of the CPS cases never result in criminal prosecution of the crime that warranted the case in the first place.

My point is that if there were truly criminal actions against the children, the courts would be involved as well. The fact that so many CPS cases remain outside the courts (except the parents having to petition for their children's return ) is a big red flag to me that the takings are without merit.

Just my opinion.

Mom and dad were divorced. It was an ugly one. My dad didn'thave the $$ to take my mom to court for custody as he was still trying to finish paying for the divorce.

Other responsible adult (besides my mom) was my step dad. She was very abusive towards him too. I recall her screaming at him all the time threatening divorce. After their marriage shook down (seven years later) he wound up taking over $60k from my mom and he was sleeping around quite a bit (not that I could blame him)..

To be fair, I never spoke with him (once I became an adult) about all of this. I did speak with my dad and he was upset that my step-dad never 'did' anything about it.

I've spoken with several educators on occasion and they tell me that my story is not unique and there is more of this type of thing going on than the average person is aware of FWIW.

(88GT, I'd be happy to exchange PM's about some of this dynamic in more detail if you're interested.. way too much to get into on a public forum )

Thanks. I don't want to pry. I just couldn't figure out when the divorce happened from the original post. The 4y/o poop incident made me think he was there for at least some of the abuse, but I did catch that later he wasn't there.

I guess I don't understand how people can sit back and let it happen. Then again, I'm not a card-carrying member of the MYOB Club either. I understand there are lots of factors, but who the hell can rationalize letting a child be treated that way?

 

[Dead Duck]

God has a special place in His heart for all little children and a special place in hell for all their abusers.







When Nancy Schaefer and her husband were shot, did the inquiry end?
This government sanction shouldn't stop the CPS from being investigated.

 

[Liberty's Teeth]

I hate to say it, but this will be one of the "tactics" the administration will use against dissenters. You will hear cries of "how can the children not be in danger when their parents believe the things they do? For their safety we must remove the children from the situation, immediately."