CCW At the 1500 Gun Show

[LP1]

That's because you showed them your gun. They let me keep mine loaded and concealed because I kept my damn mouth shut.

And because you didn't fondle it, use it to check out a new holster, demonstrate how easy it is to field strip, or show it to Cletus.

 

[chipbennett]

Alright, I'll bite. If the gun show were a movie theater and did this, we'd never hear the end of it and there would be 42 pages in the thread about it. While it isn't exactly a gun free zone, it functionally is one, if everyone follows the rules.

I'm not going! (Actally, I'm not going partially because I shot my $$$ on a night vision rifle scope this week!)

The signs at the Indy 1500 carry no more force of law than the signs anywhere else. Concealed is concealed. I don't complain about movie theaters, and I didn't complain about the signs at the Indy 1500.

You might have to be willing to lie, though, since you might get asked, "do you have any firearms?" when you enter the 1500.

(Spoiler: my conscience was completely clear answering "no" to that question.)

 

[chipbennett]

I thought about that but my buddy didn't say that he had his and kept it concealed but someone in the line said that my buddy had one and he didn't have to show it so the State Police confiscated his firearm and escorted out him under the threat of arrest
just never know

And how, exactly, did this random person in the line know that your buddy was carrying concealed?

 

[chipbennett]

That's because you showed them your gun. They let me keep mine loaded and concealed because I kept my damn mouth shut.

Darn rep overlords.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to chezuki again."

 

[LP1]

WHAT??? Nobody whining and b*tching about "if I can't carry my loaded pistol at the show I'm not going"!
Where are all of you who slam all the other gun shows because "that violates your rights"?
C'mon guys where's the dogpile?

I'm biting too.

I hate the hypocrisy of it.

We decry gun-free zones, and people who feel unsafe around armed civilians are regularly mocked. However, put a bunch of us in a room, and what does the sign always say? "NO LOADED GUNS" What does that say about how we really feel about our fellow gun owners?

And the last time I was at the shrine of St. Bob (PSS, "extreme right wing"), there was a similar sign at the entrance.

Yet, the 1500 continues to pack people in, and guns fly off the shelves at PSS.

If we don't trust our fellow gun owners to handle firearms safely, why should we expect anyone else to?

 

[chipbennett]

I'm biting too.

I hate the hypocrisy of it.

We decry gun-free zones, and people who feel unsafe around armed civilians are regularly mocked. However, put a bunch of us in a room, and what does the sign always say? "NO LOADED GUNS" What does that say about how we really feel about our fellow gun owners?

And the last time I was at the shrine of St. Bob (PSS, "extreme right wing"), there was a similar sign at the entrance.

Yet, the 1500 continues to pack people in, and guns fly off the shelves at PSS.

If we don't trust our fellow gun owners to handle firearms safely, why should we expect anyone else to?

Standard fare for LGS, and unfortunately necessary. Take your pick of any LGS that does any sort of volume, and they probably have a jar or box full of spent casings from NDs that have taken place inside the shop. Too many idiots don't leave their loaded firearms safely holstered - or don't render their firearm as safe before bringing it in for service/trade.

In any LGS, i interpret that sign as implying, "...but concealed is concealed."

 

[LP1]

Standard fare for LGS, and unfortunately necessary. Take your pick of any LGS that does any sort of volume, and they probably have a jar or box full of spent casings from NDs that have taken place inside the shop. Too many idiots don't leave their loaded firearms safely holstered - or don't render their firearm as safe before bringing it in for service/trade.

In any LGS, i interpret that sign as implying, "...but concealed is concealed."

I agree with everything you said, except for "unfortunately necessary". If it's "necessary" to prevent us from carrying a loaded firearm at a gun show or gun shop, then the same logic should apply anywhere that people are gathered. If we accept the collateral damage as being the cost of protecting ourselves, then to act otherwise in our own gatherings defies logic. If it's "necessary" to disarm people at a gun shop or show, then we need to stop complaining about those who want us to be disarmed in other settings.

Why can't we simply post the four rules, along with the statement that anyone who can't abide by them is not welcome?

 

[chipbennett]

I agree with everything you said, except for "unfortunately necessary". If it's "necessary" to prevent us from carrying a loaded firearm at a gun show or gun shop, then the same logic should apply anywhere that people are gathered. If we accept the collateral damage as being the cost of protecting ourselves, then to act otherwise in our own gatherings defies logic. If it's "necessary" to disarm people at a gun shop or show, then we need to stop complaining about those who want us to be disarmed in other settings.

Why can't we simply post the four rules, along with the statement that anyone who can't abide by them is not welcome?

I guess what I'm saying is: I look at such signs at LGSs as only applying to those "not in the club", so to speak. If you're in the "club" - you know the four rules, you follow the four rules, and your concealed weapon stays concealed inside the LGS - then the LGS doesn't care if you're carrying. The sign is for the idiots who do the things that put the LGS at risk.

 

[LP1]

I guess what I'm saying is: I look at such signs at LGSs as only applying to those "not in the club", so to speak. If you're in the "club" - you know the four rules, you follow the four rules, and your concealed weapon stays concealed inside the LGS - then the LGS doesn't care if you're carrying. The sign is for the idiots who do the things that put the LGS at risk.

Those idiots walk among us 24/7 and will continue to do so unless/until Darwin catches up with them. What I'm saying is that if we expect the anti-firearm folks to accept the risks posed by those idiots, then we need to accept those risks as well. If we won't accept those risks, we have no right to expect others to do so either.

 

[chipbennett]

Those idiots walk among us 24/7 and will continue to do so unless/until Darwin catches up with them. What I'm saying is that if we expect the anti-firearm folks to accept the risks posed by those idiots, then we need to accept those risks as well. If we won't accept those risks, we have no right to expect others to do so either.

There is a difference: inside an LGS is one of the only places where it is (considered by some to be) appropriate, and potentially commonplace, to unholster a firearm when not facing a threat. And the firearm-wielding idiots are more likely to be concentrated at an LGS, for obvious reasons.

I agree with everything you're saying. The real issue is a high concentration of people who do not know (or who know, but do not respect) the four rules. The real solution is to enforce the four rules, rather than making a blanket "no loaded guns" statement. And I agree that, at a minimum, it gives the appearance of hypocrisy to tolerate LGSs posting "no guns", while giving any other retailer all manner of grief for doing the same.

 

[Twangbanger]

Chip & LP1, you have both nailed it; +4 Rep to both of you! I like the sign they have at US Defense Systems in Greenwood. It's just saying they expect people to follow the Four Rules, and if you have a "carry gun," please don't draw and handle it...unless there is reason to, in which case, it says "good marksmanship is appreciated." Their signage should be trumpeted as an example of the correct way to do things.

I think the real problem here which leads to the perception of two separate standards of behavior for gun show/shop vs. a movie theater, is that in a gun establishment, there is an expectation that guns in general are going to be handled there. It's necessary in order to do business. And that's where the problem begins. In a movie, you aren't getting your gun out unless James Holmes comes in. But in a gun establishment, there is a lot of, "Hey, buddy, lookie at this little toy I picked up the other day (> shwacking sound as gun is racked and a round hits the floor)." After somebody enters, it can be hard to keep track of which gun they are simply looking at...and which is the one Uncle Cletus just pulled from his pocket. If people could discipline themselves to get educated a bit, those irritating signs wouldn't be there. The irritating signs are because gun shops experience the antics of those irritating people, more often than any movie theater or Starbucks ever dreamed of. And, the gun shops don't want to cart their valued employees off to hospital, or keep replacing windows, patching carpet, and painting floors.

Chip is exactly correct, everyone needs to just follow the 4 rules. Honestly, there is probably more risk associated with people unloading their guns before entering, than there is with just keeping them hot & concealed and shutting tf up about them. And LP1 is exactly correct, too...we have to be the change we wish to see in the world. We cannot expect other types of businesses to be happy about the perceived risk of letting us into their establishments with our heaters, until we can manage ourselves properly in gun-friendly establishments. The fact that so many gun shops have those bad signs out front, is a Piers Morgan or Everytown public relations nightmare waiting to happen. At some time in the future, a gun owner is going to screw up and take their liberal anti-gun friend into a gun shop that has one of those signs, a phone-pic is going to get "tweeted" to the wrong place, and within a week, you're going to have someone like Jon Stewart showing a whole montage of these signs while smirking about it. And a bunch of millennial people will be skillfully manipulated to the wrong position, once a-gain. We need to make those signs go away, through our actions.

The type of sign they have at U.S. Defense Solutions in Greenwood, Indiana is the beginning of getting this problem righted. We need to publicize the fact there is a shop doing it right, so it becomes the accepted standard everywhere. Let your friends know.

 

[confused89]

If I go to the show I carry concealed. Don't touch the gun. Don't fiddle with it. Don't even look at it. It stays in the holster. I have discovered that I will not find what I am looking for at the gun show anyway. My tastes in firearms have become very selective. So I have stopped going to it.

 

[Twangbanger]

If I go to the show I carry concealed. Don't touch the gun. Don't fiddle with it. Don't even look at it. It stays in the holster. I have discovered that I will not find what I am looking for at the gun show anyway. My tastes in firearms have become very selective. So I have stopped going to it.

Yep . Selection isn't that good, it's a hassle, the combination of odors from the old building + the crowd smells like greasepaint (a vomit-inducing memory from my high school stage-acting days), and it's difficult to see the merchandise because the aisles are congested with idiots who dragged their uninterested girlfriends along. Shows used to be a good alternative when there weren't as many good local dealers. Now there are plenty of good LGS. I quit going about 3 years ago, and honestly, for the last 5 years I attended before that, the only value I was getting out of it was seeing old friends. People I didn't see often would converge in Indy and it was a good excuse to go out and have lunch. I finally realized that if those friends are worth seeing, there's places to do that which don't involve getting farted on by a succession of strangers.

 

[DNS]

Two people were accidentally shot at an Ohio show yesterday. Not saying anyone on this forum would accidentally do this, but it's not worth carrying and not following the rules of the show. We don't need anymore reasons to close down gun shows.

 

[chipbennett]

Two people were accidentally shot at an Ohio show yesterday. Not saying anyone on this forum would accidentally do this, but it's not worth carrying and not following the rules of the show. We don't need anymore reasons to close down gun shows.

I refuse to change my behavior, in a manner that renders me less safe, on the basis that others choose to act irresponsibly.

 

[DNS]

That is a great answer. Makes me rethink what I said.

 

[Principal Skinr]

Why don't the gun stores post signs saying "Concealed carry only. Concealed firearms are NOT to be visible or unholstered, or you will be required to leave." Why can't they just be straightforward about it. A gun show could do the same thing.

 

[chipbennett]

Why don't the gun stores post signs saying "Concealed carry only. Concealed firearms are NOT to be visible or unholstered, or you will be required to leave." Why can't they just be straightforward about it. A gun show could do the same thing.

Or "Loaded firearms must remain (safely?) holstered" - pretty much what Twangbanger said, above.

 

[AmmoManAaron]

I refuse to change my behavior, in a manner that renders me less safe, on the basis that others choose to act irresponsibly.

QFT. And "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to chipbennett again."

 

[JettaKnight]

I guess what I'm saying is: I look at such signs at LGSs as only applying to those "not in the club", so to speak. If you're in the "club" - you know the four rules, you follow the four rules, and your concealed weapon stays concealed inside the LGS - then the LGS doesn't care if you're carrying. The sign is for the idiots who do the things that put the LGS at risk.

I dunno, on INGO I learned that the club has a special inner room that allows me to make up my own rules.

I refuse to change my behavior, in a manner that renders me less safe, on the basis that others choose to act irresponsibly.

You're not the one to worry about.